VST Audio Inputs

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jinglemarsta
KVRer
7 posts since 2 Dec, 2017

Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:00 pm

I have a VST plug-in, the "SW ESX-8CV Combiner" (part of the Expert Sleeper's Silent Way Suite). It has 10 discrete Inputs, aptly numbered 1 through 10. Synonymous with multi-out chains, I'd like to be able to route incoming Audio to whichever input I want. It seems I can't do this though. BWS (2.4.3) doesn't appear to have way to address multiple inputs into VST's. There is a "sidechain input" option, but this will only route an output to the second stereo pair of the plug-in (Channel 3/4). So effectively I can't define and input for channels 6-10 on my SW ESX-8CV Combiner.

Is this correct, or is there some way to achieve this?

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antic604
KVRian
1496 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:42 am

Have you tried looking at source track's output drop-down menu? The VST and its inputs should be listed there.
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

jinglemarsta
KVRer
7 posts since 2 Dec, 2017

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:04 pm

I heard back from Bitwig Support and can confirm that only up to 4 Audio inputs are supported by BWS for multi-channel VST plug-ins.

So if your VST device has more than 4 inputs, at this time (BWS 2.4.3) you can't use any inputs above 4.

Of the 4 that you can use, the input audio routing into VST's is currently nailed up to 2 stereo pairs, namely stereo pair 1/2 and stereo pair 3/4.

By default audio sent to a VST will enter via input stereo pair 1/2. Using the Sidechain Input option of the VST you can gain access to input stereo pair 3/4.

I have been advised by Bitwig Support that the ability to individually address VST audio inputs and the support of multiple (more than 4) VST audio inputs is currently on the BWS "wish list". I'm wishing...

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shadiradio
KVRist
435 posts since 28 Mar, 2014 from Los Angeles, CA

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:37 pm

jinglemarsta wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:04 pm
I have been advised by Bitwig Support that the ability to individually address VST audio inputs and the support of multiple (more than 4) VST audio inputs is currently on the BWS "wish list". I'm wishing...
Thanks for following up with them and letting us know. I've recently been working with ambisonic audio sources for 360 videos, and unfortunately the typical workflow (4-16 channel encoder and decoder VSTs) isn't possible in Bitwig without multi-channel support per track. Hopefully they'll allow for any number of audio channels per track in a future update. Back to Reaper for now! :(

jinglemarsta
KVRer
7 posts since 2 Dec, 2017

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:16 am

Like many things, you never really go looking until you have need and for the most part, things I have needed can be done in BWS. I had wrongly assumed that it must be possible, but I just couldn't work out how. The Inability to discretely address multiple VST inputs is a straight roadblock for at least one project I was pursuing, but rather than bin the project, I'm going to park it as BWS is still undergoing intense development and a feature like this IMO is really more related to "when" it will be released as opposed to "will" it be released. Until then, I'm already onto something new...

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antic604
KVRian
1496 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 am

Thanks for posting the info from Support! I wasn't aware of this limitation :(

Regarding this:
jinglemarsta wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:16 am
The Inability to discretely address multiple VST inputs is a straight roadblock for at least one project I was pursuing, but rather than bin the project, I'm going to park it
...isn't there a workaround you can do, like using multiple instances of that plugin, or something? Each of the DAWs I own is missing something that others have, but usually there's a way to achieve the same effect, just not as easily or directly.
Live 10 // Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4
Music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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shadiradio
KVRist
435 posts since 28 Mar, 2014 from Los Angeles, CA

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:51 am

Unfortunately there's no way to route many audio channels into a single VST that requires it. I love Bitwig and usually find workarounds if I can because the benefits outweigh the cons, but I'm pretty sure there's no workaround for this. Audio receivers make routing pretty flexible, but you still can't feed more inputs into a single VST. The binaural/ambisonic/spatial audio decoders can require from 4 to 16 audio inputs (depending on the order & fidelity of the ambisonic source), and the same for outputs. I believe Bitwig's tracks themselves can only pass around stereo audio (not even mono), so it's just not possible.

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5091 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:13 am

Yeah, for Ambisonics I gave up as well - they are the only thing I go to reaper for, since it also has the ATK which is very good and free.
5.1 is easy to do in Bitwig though and that is what I use all the time.

You can in theory work around it by using something like Plogue Bidule and a VST toolset that allows you to send audio anywhere. Since Bidule can load VSTs internally and you can wire those receiver VSTs to your ambisonic plugins, it would work if you only need one instance, but of course, for several tools in a row it breaks down fast.

For binaural audio from my 5.1 setup in Bitwig I use again Bidule with the stereo in and the sidechain as front and rear and wire that inside of Bidule to the Waves NX tools respective inputs. Since I hardly use Center, I am okay with four input channels for the binaural version.

So with a modular tool like Bidule, you can crack the problem of addressing higher inputs of a plugin than the first four, but bringing in more than four channels is no fun, although doable.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi

ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

jinglemarsta
KVRer
7 posts since 2 Dec, 2017

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:54 pm

antic604 wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:35 am
Thanks for posting the info from Support! I wasn't aware of this limitation :(

Regarding this:
jinglemarsta wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:16 am
The Inability to discretely address multiple VST inputs is a straight roadblock for at least one project I was pursuing, but rather than bin the project, I'm going to park it
...isn't there a workaround you can do, like using multiple instances of that plugin, or something? Each of the DAWs I own is missing something that others have, but usually there's a way to achieve the same effect, just not as easily or directly.
For my project, the VST inputs map to the outputs of a hardware device, so running multiple VST instances will just continue to use the same 4 hardware outputs and leave all others unused. There is sadly no workaround at present. Bitwig know of the limitation and the need, it's just a matter of prioritising the development IMO. I feel we are beyond the question of "will it happen", it's now a question of "when will it happen".

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5091 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:13 pm

But couldn't you use for instance Bidule like this:
Image
In this case I route the inputs 3 & 4 (the sidechain in BWS) inside the Bidule VST to inputs 5 & 6 of a surround/binaural VST plugin.
If you can use multiple instances of your plugin, you can route to inputs 1-4 normally in the first instance and to inputs 5-8 in the second with Bidule.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi

ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
30068 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:33 pm

Bidule is such a Swiss army knife :)

jinglemarsta
KVRer
7 posts since 2 Dec, 2017

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:11 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:13 pm
But couldn't you use for instance Bidule like this:
Image
In this case I route the inputs 3 & 4 (the sidechain in BWS) inside the Bidule VST to inputs 5 & 6 of a surround/binaural VST plugin.
If you can use multiple instances of your plugin, you can route to inputs 1-4 normally in the first instance and to inputs 5-8 in the second with Bidule.

Cheers,

Tom
Thanks for this Tom, this looks to be a workable solution, I'm going to try it out and I'll report back.

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
5091 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Re: VST Audio Inputs

Post Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:35 am

:tu:
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi

ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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