Tracktion Software

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:56 pm

Is there any good reason why the Tracktion-made plugins take so long to appear? All of the DAW Essentials and Master Mix take anything from 1 second to 4 seconds to appear.

chico.co.uk · Post by **chico.co.uk** » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:17 pm

What does "to appear" mean?

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:41 pm

When you click on them to open their window. The window doesn't appear for some seconds. Plugins from every other developer are fine and their windows appear almost instantly.

jonljacobi · Post by **jonljacobi** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:15 pm

Maybe being loaded for first use. Do they lag if you add them a second time? Other than that, who knows? If they're new, then maybe there's still debugging code in play.

Watchful · Post by **Watchful** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:44 pm

I've noticed this with Subtractive--four full seconds, and that was maybe its second or even third load up.

I never really noticed this until fromwithin's question, so I'll start taking an informal note of how long they take.

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:52 pm

It's not just on first opening, it's any time they're opened. It's not just in Waveform either. They take comparatively ages to appear in Adobe Audition as well.

dRowAudio · Post by **dRowAudio** » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:52 pm

Is this just on Windows? Collective and BioTek 2 take a couple of seconds to load as they have a huge number of controls.
Subtractive takes about 1s, all DAW Essentials ~200ms for me on my MacBook Pro.

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:17 pm

Yes, on Windows. I don't know about other platforms.

I've just done some more testing...

In Waveform:
The first time any DAW Essentials plugin is opened, it takes seconds to appear unless there is another plugin of the same type somewhere in the edit. Any subsequent re-opening is fast. If the plugin is deleted and then re-inserted, the first opening takes ages again (once again, unless there is already a plugin of the same type somewhere else). If all DAW Essentials plugins of one type are deleted, adding back in an instance of that plugin again takes ages to appear on first opening. Collective takes about the same amount of time as any of the DAW Essentials.

Master Mix always takes ages to appear whenever its window is opened, even if it has not been deleted and re-added, or even if there is another instance somewhere. It takes a bit longer than any of the others.

In Adobe Audition, it's basically the same. If they are placed in an effects rack then the first opening is slow and the rest are okay unless the plugin is deleted and re-added, in which case the first opening is slow again. Master Mix is always slow to appear.

dRowAudio · Post by **dRowAudio** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:23 pm

It sounds like your system is taking a few seconds to actually load the DLLs in to memory.
Where on disk are the plugin files located? Are they on your system drive or an external one?

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:06 pm

They're not on the system drive, but they're on an internal SSD inside a folder where I have all of my VSTs. It's not going to be a loading time issue. Kontakt appears almost immediately and is a 62MB DLL. The DAW Essentials are all less then 5MB.

Also, Master Mix takes about 4 seconds to appear even if the window is just closed and re-opened without the plugin ever having being unloaded.

fromwithin · Post by **fromwithin** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:31 pm

I've just done a quick profile with VerySleepy.

On opening MasterMix or loading a DAW Essential and before the window appears, the relevant thread in Waveform spends 30%-50% of its time in NtGdiGetGlyphOutline, 25-35% of the time in NtUserGetMessage, and 10%-20% in NtGdiGetGlyphIndicesW.

Looks like a font bug to me.

dRowAudio · Post by **dRowAudio** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:38 pm

Is anyone else actually seeing this on Windows? The only other person only mentions Subtractive, not DAW Essentials, Master Mix etc. I'd like to get an idea of the scope of the problem as it doesn't happen on our test machines.

Watchful · Post by **Watchful** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:51 pm

I don't have DAW Essentials, but I'll test what I can.

Watchful · Post by **Watchful** » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:55 pm

Here's a snippet. I test an initial load (selecting the plug-in from the list and then timing until the window opens fully), as well as clicking on the plug-in after it's already loaded into the track to see how long it takes to fully open.

I also tested some non-Tracktion plugins. Seems that the bulkier the plugin (Collective, Subtractive, Retromod 106, and Xpand 2), the longer it takes, which makes sense. I think these are reasonable times.

Collective
Initial Load: 3 seconds
Clicking After Load: 1 second

Subtractive
Initial Load: 2-3 seconds
Clicking After Load: 1 second

Retromod 106
Initial Load: 3-4 seconds
Clicking After Load: <1 second

Multisampler
Initial Load: <1 second
Clicking After Load: <1 second

Korg Legacy M1
Initial Load: 1-2 seconds
Clicking After Load: <1 second

Dexed
Initial Load: 1 second
Clicking After Load: <1 second

Korg ARP Odyssey
Initial Load: 2 seconds
Clicking After Load: <1 second

Xpand 2
Initial Load: 4 seconds
Clicking After Load: <1 second

mfkne · Post by **mfkne** » Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:06 am

dRowAudio wrote: Fri Feb 22, 2019 7:38 pm Is anyone else actually seeing this on Windows? The only other person only mentions Subtractive, not DAW Essentials, Master Mix etc. I'd like to get an idea of the scope of the problem as it doesn't happen on our test machines.

I can confirm that. Behaviour did not happen here in Waveform 9 but in Waveform 10. Takes a few seconds to appear.

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Win 10, 64 bit, VST 2 Plugins

Tracktion Software

KVR Audio

Tracktion plugins take ages to appear