FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available)

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frozenjazz
KVRist
40 posts since 8 Nov, 2010

Post Fri May 03, 2019 7:34 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:30 am
The rakes were there in SRP as well ("Extra Pick", it was a misnomer), and chokes were there too IIRC.


Well, this means I won't really miss those in Serpent as I have them in SRP2 then :)
I think it is not fair to say that you can't play "the most basic metal riffs" because demos obviously show that it's possible...
This is just bad luck: 3 of the "most basic metal riffs" I had composed with SRP2 use palm mutes -> hammer ons transitions...
DrMEM wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 1:52 pm
I think the logic in s3 is that hammer on is a legato version of sustain, so you can only trigger hammer ons from sustains, and if you're doing it using velocities then the hammer on velocity range has to overlap the sustain velocity range.
That's correct. Plus, there's timbral differences between mutes and sustained hammer-ons, which would make it sound unrealistic...
[/quote]

Unrealistic... but I played them first on my real Gisbon LP, and then tried to mimic this in SRP2, and I was happy to be able to replicate them in a matter of seconds.

So if Serpent really can't do these, I guess I can uninstall the whole thing...
The only features I need are: Sustain / Palm mutes and hammer-ons from both of them to Sustain. I will never use any of the integrated pedals or effects, as I use my own chain anyway.

There is no way an update would allow this? I mean, it was working like a charm in SRP2...

If not, well, maybe I'll be able to somehow crossgrade to Archtop?

User avatar
EvilDragon
KVRAF
17988 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Fri May 03, 2019 8:31 am

It's not impossible to add it in an update, as far as I can tell. Will it be done? I don't know, it's not my call :)

pryzmusic
KVRer
6 posts since 27 Mar, 2019

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Fri May 03, 2019 8:49 am

If you would like hammer on samples coming from palm mutes, simply use the "Tap" articulation for those notes, as tapping utilizes the same samples. There are a wealth of mapping options you can design to make this easy, just as splitting mutes and taps by velocity or using a nonlatch keyswitch to "key in" those hammers.

We do not support hammer ons from mutes because this creates unrealistic results and frustrating behavior that feels like the instrument is misbehaving to most people. The default usage behavior is that Hammer-On legato is "always on", and so keyswitching in your palm mute articulation, you would expect it to always give you palm mutes, but instead every note is being legato'd, and maybe only 1 out of every 4 notes is a palm mute, the rest just sound like normal sustains.

This is a very easy problem for you to solve by utilizing TACT to get the workflow that you enjoy.

frozenjazz
KVRist
40 posts since 8 Nov, 2010

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Fri May 03, 2019 9:35 am

@pryzmusic
Thanks for your answer! :tu:
pryzmusic wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:49 am
If you would like hammer on samples coming from palm mutes, simply use the "Tap" articulation for those notes, as tapping utilizes the same samples.
I loved the idea to simply do a real hammer on on my keyboard (that is, playing a note while maintaining the previous one), it felt so natural and easy...
But for post production work, your trick works, I now after all these hours get a sound nearly as good as what I got in two seconds in SRP2, I am really happy! :hyper: :party:
We do not support hammer ons from mutes because this creates unrealistic results and frustrating behavior that feels like the instrument is misbehaving to most people. The default usage behavior is that Hammer-On legato is "always on", and so keyswitching in your palm mute articulation, you would expect it to always give you palm mutes, but instead every note is being legato'd, and maybe only 1 out of every 4 notes is a palm mute, the rest just sound like normal sustains.
ok, I see what you mean: you have the feeling to "miss" some notes. Yes, I agree, but then I quickly understood that I simply add to detach notes and it worked as excpected (in SRP2, we mean).
But yes, I can feel what you say.
This is a very easy problem for you to solve by utilizing TACT to get the workflow that you enjoy.
Hm, it will never be as good and intuitive as the workflow I had in SRP2, but the job can be done, so this is great.

My only question would be, what are the real sound improvements in Serpent?
I will use the new engine to be sure I benefit from the latest developments, but things are not that clear to me...

DrMEM
KVRist
181 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Mon May 13, 2019 12:24 pm

zircon wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:40 am
You can set it up exactly like that. Just set Sustain to "VEL" 60-127, and Mute to "VEL" 1-59, replacing the existing KEY rule. The SUS articulation will highlight in red because it now overlaps RAKE, but that's actually OK since RAKE is like a pre-articulation (we called it 'Extra Pick' in S2, but that wasn't really accurate).

I'm happy to take a look at your setup in S3 if you're still confused but you really only need the one VEL rule for these artics.
Following up on this, here is a graphical description of my problem. I will have to split this up into two posts since 3 images is the max allowed per post.

MY SHREDDAGE 2 SETUP:
S2 settings.png
Portamento works in Shreddage 2!
S2 port.png
MY SHREDDAGE 3 SETUP (You said set S3 up the same way as S2):
S3 settings 1.png
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DrMEM
KVRist
181 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Mon May 13, 2019 12:27 pm

MY SHREDDAGE 3 SETUP (continued)
S3 settings 2.png
S3 settings 3.png
Portamento in Shreddage 3 does not work with these settings.
S3 port.png
Am I doing something wrong, or is this a bug?
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zircon
KVRAF
4449 posts since 16 Mar, 2004 from Columbia, MD

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Tue May 14, 2019 5:30 pm

Can you send me the actual snapsnot NKSN that you're using? I'm trying to replicate this and it's working fine for me with that setup.
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DrMEM
KVRist
181 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Wed May 15, 2019 10:01 am

zircon wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:30 pm
Can you send me the actual snapsnot NKSN that you're using? I'm trying to replicate this and it's working fine for me with that setup.
See here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zpj3vpr0ml1vb ... .nksn?dl=0

(This is a Jupiter snapshot.)

DAW is Reaper, though I doubt that matters.

Thanks!

zircon
KVRAF
4449 posts since 16 Mar, 2004 from Columbia, MD

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Thu May 16, 2019 12:08 pm

OK I see the issue. Mutes are set to 1-59, Sus is 60-127. Since you are playing (SUS) to (MUTE), the slide will never trigger as the slide is mapped in the Mute range.

This isn't technically a bug, but it's a difference in how S3's behavior works to S2. We'll have to discuss (internally) how we can manage this in a way that makes sense. I agree it would be more convenient to temporarily ignore the Mute mapping, but code-wise it's difficult.

The reason S2 was simpler in this regard is that the mappings were much more limited so we didn't have to account for many possible combinations of things (I.e. multiple rules, keyranges, non-latch/latch KS etc)
Shreddage 3 Stratus: Next generation Kontakt Player guitar, now available!

Impact Soundworks - Cinematic sounds, world instruments, electric guitars, synths, percussion, plugins + more!

DrMEM
KVRist
181 posts since 6 Aug, 2017

Re: FIVE New & Improved Shreddage 3 Instruments: Archtop, Rogue, Jupiter, Abyss, Serpent! (Upgrade/crossgrades available

Post Fri May 17, 2019 11:13 pm

Ok, thanks. I understand the reason for the different behavior. Still, it would be nice to have the old way as an option since the rest of the S3 engine is so much better!

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