MSF - Moog Style Filter / MTurboFilter

[operator]

Sorry if i open up a new Thread... I re-read the MSF-wishlist, some other Threads and my personal posts but it seems that I can´t find the Thread / statement from Vojtech I´m looking for. But I think this Topic could deserve a dedicated Thread anyway, sooo:

Today I compared the Filters from Sylenth, Serum, Hive to the one in MSF and I found that MSF could need some "Analog-Style/Moog-Style" Filters. The Filter-module sounds very clean, almost too clean. There are a lots of uses for the present Filter-Types in MSF where they´re sounding even better than the ones of the competition. But sometimes, in a few cases, they seem to lack a little bit of "smoothness". (sorry for that relative term)

In one Thread Chandler asked for such an Analog-Type Filter, I also postet there something... and I think to remember that Vojtech then said something about MTurboFilter. But i can´t recall if he said that this will happen for sure... So my question would be: Do we get such a Filter in MSF? Would be really awesome.

[jmg8]

Yes, MTurboFilter is officially planned for MSF.

Hopefully it will bring some great new options.
However the OverX filter that is already there combined with drive is already really flexible and can sound very analogue. The thing that makes filters sound different from each other is often just attributes changes relative the the frequency. For example the resonance might be higher in the upper frequencies, or the distortion might be dirtier at lower frequencies. When playing around dynamically with the harmonics from gain and character along with resonance and drive, you can mimic the analog filter sound. Out of the box default setting sound very clean though, so best of both worlds I guess.

That being said, I am excited to hear what MTurboFilter will bring to the table.

[operator]

Yes, MTurboFilter is officially planned for MSF.

Hopefully it will bring some great new options.
However the OverX filter that is already there combined with drive is already really flexible and can sound very analogue. The thing that makes filters sound different from each other is often just attributes changes relative the the frequency. For example the resonance might be higher in the upper frequencies, or the distortion might be dirtier at lower frequencies. When playing around dynamically with the harmonics from gain and character along with resonance and drive, you can mimic the analog filter sound. Out of the box default setting sound very clean though, so best of both worlds I guess.

That being said, I am excited to hear what MTurboFilter will bring to the table.

I´ve also made the comparison with the Sub-X (I think you mean this one aswell and not Over-X). And yes, it was closer to the desired outcome... but still for example the Sylenth filter was a little bit more nasal and more "phasy" compared to MSF´s Filter. Especially the phasy part made it really musically pleasing. It also was more forgiving when it came to cranking the resonance way up. But yes of course the devils in the detail and MSF is less a sweet-spot synth and has much bigger ranges in some functions and you need to keep the ctrl key pressed to not overshoot the desired setting...

And to make it clear i compared all 4 synths to each other not only to MSF... and I had in all synths almost the same sound (of course not 100%) but Serum, Sylenth and Hive had all this very pleasing "phasiness" to them which was absent in MSF´s Filter... for some sounds i would prefer the MSF Filter, for example heavy lead sounds/drum sounds/ and all sorts of hard hitting timbres... because the phasiness pushes the sound a little bit further back. But overall i would prefer the musicallity of the phasy part of the filter... (Especially for the genre I´m working in I would love to get the "soft" sounding filter for some sounds.)

So then I will be patient and am looking forward to the MTurboFilter...

[ZentralmassivSound]

That is interesting. can you post sound examples?

[werzel]

MTurboFilter sounds fun. Any idea if the filter shapes will be editable/customizable?

[Mr D]

I agree and i posted about this a while ago, the filters in MPowerSynth and Melda in general don't sound as fat as Serum, let alone something like "The Drop".

Indeed Sub-X is a bit better but still not good enough.

I'm not a coder or DSP guru, but i know what my ears tell me, which is that the Melda filters are a bit weak in some way.

[jmg8]

If it will be like MTurboEQ, I reckon that it will not be editable. Rather it will be a collection of filters that have been machine learned from the originals.
I hope there will be a huge collection. While the fat analogue filters will be most used, it will be cool to see some more exotic creative types in there too. Like serums reverb filter, massives scream filter, loads of comb, resonator and phase filters (that keep pitch for the whole frequency range)

It would be cool if there was an editor option though. I imagine being able to free draw a filter shape and then sweep the frequency. However that being said, it probably will not be so useful as the shape almost always changes in relation to the frequency. So I predict this would come in a separate plugin, in the form of MSpectralFilter or MFreeformFilter.

Lastly I will be glad to see the filter frequency value in Hertz rather than octaves.

Hope it comes soon!

[vectorwarrior]

Completely agree with everything jmg8 said.

[operator]

I hope there will be a huge collection. While the fat analogue filters will be most used, it will be cool to see some more exotic creative types in there too. Like serums reverb filter, massives scream filter, loads of comb, resonator and phase filters (that keep pitch for the whole frequency range)

That would be amazing... I also agree with everything else jmg8 has written... Damn I hope everything that he said will be realized...

Now after that had been said, I can´t wait to get my hands on this thing... ( I want it now )

[mevla]

I personally find MPowersynth veering on the cold side of sounds. And this is probably why I'm not attracted to explore it much. I'm not comparing with say Diva or Repro-1/5. I'm comparing with other soft synths such as Predator2, Synthmaster2, ElectraX, Icarus, even Go2 which is fairly well digital-sounding.

That, and the keyboard responsiveness is not the same as any other soft synth. It has some kind of a delay in it. A controller key is pressed and there's no immediate feeling that the key press is related to the sound, at least not as with all other soft synths I use on a regular basis. I have to alter a velocity curve in MPowersynth in order to get the same response.

This said, hopefully MSF will be veering more on the warm side of things and hopefully it will also be more responsive. I haven't gave it a try in a while. I should check it out, but then, I'm waiting for it to have a fair amount of presets. I'm not a sound designer.

Cheers.

[dmbaer]

Lastly I will be glad to see the filter frequency value in Hertz rather than octaves.

I quite like the approach taken in MPowerSynth where you can specify cutoff frequency in relation to note pitch and implicitly have cutoff 100% follow note pitch. For a synth, this makes for great default behavior, IMO. But it must be acknowledged that if you wanted something other than 0% keytracking or 100% keytracking, this would be tricky to figure out.

The most beneficial solution might be to have a choice in cutoff frequency specification. A standalone MTurboFilter would probably most often be used in the absence of MIDI note-number information for modulation, so cutoff frequency specified in Hz would make the most sense by far.

In an MSF filter module, however, I would very much like to have a choice between relative-to-note-pitch and explicitly specified frequency.

[operator]

Another cool filter style would be the very new style added to Serum (Comb BP, Comb LP) where a LP or BP is convoluted with a comb filter.

Also it would be cool not only to free draw a filter but being able to load own Filter IR's (or audio samples for creative outcome). I could imagine it like the advanced tab in the oscillators where one could load in samples and skew, phase etc. them. And if the skew, etc would be modulateable like in the oscillators... holly gizz... these would be a new type of dynamic filter.

I guess this would also open up a new sound-design technique, Instead of bending wavetables (what is very popular) one could bend filters.

[werzel]

I've been wondering what Math would do to a pair of Filters.
6db LP + Formant E = ?
Comb 3 * Sub-X 24 = ?
BComb - Diffuser 6 =?
etc.

[MeldaProduction]

Yes, MTurboFilter is planned, but it's exact nature is not known yet (even to me )

[Distorted Horizon]

Yes, MTurboFilter is planned, but it's exact nature is not known yet (even to me )

Possibility to write your own algorithm like in mturboreverb would be quite cool