Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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jancivil
KVRAF
19154 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Post Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:58 am

A triad = 3, a seven note scale = 7. "the chord itself when built is your scale" is true only with these as the same set.
And is generally conceived the other way around.

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KVRist
249 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:40 am

Ok, I'm not perfectly correct but I get the logic. I think though, what I'm getting at is that the structure of music only really begins to become clear with chord building, or, when the chords in use can be named thereafter. You see the relationships between the chords and how to falsify those relationships and create something that moves forward, leaving and arriving, leaving and arriving, giving the appearance of an overall longer journey made from taking shorter journeys, paths, directions (motifs I guess) and adding them all together.

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KVRist
249 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:16 am

Since the topic is dead and I'm not hijacking it, I thought of a situation whereby there is 3 major chords a 3rd apart (i.e. AM, CM, EM) is between the 3rd, 5th and 7th degrees of the harmonic minor scale. The F#m is a nice addition to the progression.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5114 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:38 am

Stamped Records wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:40 am
Ok, I'm not perfectly correct but I get the logic. I think though, what I'm getting at is that the structure of music only really begins to become clear with chord building
Not really. What about modal forms of music?

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KVRist
249 posts since 20 Sep, 2018 from UK

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:25 am

The op isn't about modal music.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5114 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:43 am

Stamped Records wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:25 am
The op isn't about modal music.
He asked for help with “scales/chords”, so I’m assuming general responses would be appropriate.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
53274 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:02 am

i just felt the cries of a million theremin players who then went silent :(

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jancivil
KVRAF
19154 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:09 pm

the modes are used as scales in music I wouldn't characterize as modal, some not at all.
The temptation to build triads on them arose and some people might like better information.

"what I'm getting at is that the structure of music..."?

Was YOUR goalpost, "the structure of music only really begins to become clear with chord building"
Stamped Records wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:25 am
The op isn't about modal music.
You're wrong on two counts, just plain untrue statements, which is unchanged by shifting goalposts about.
Chords are not parents to scales; there are significant musical structures which are not made clear by chords, cf., not even a feature of Indian classical.

Caine123
KVRAF
5985 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:49 am

thx so much for the replies!
e.g. when i hear a track like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzon1tLVML8

i wanna identify the key/scale which is played to know "ahh hey let try this same melody", i used apart from my ears ;D) Hornets Songkey plugin but then the question is when i get an example F#Minor, then i check schale/chordsfinder and it shows, phrygian, harmonic minor, hamronic major, Lydian etc. then i totally dont understand which of this is F#Minor for example :D.
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Forgotten
KVRAF
5114 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:01 am

Harmonic analysis isn’t always straightforward. Sometimes it’s pretty easy to determine key, but sometimes a basic analysis might give you more than one potential key, or you might have a potential key with one or more chromatic notes thrown in.

I’m not sure how well any of this software will work, and I would assume that its accuracy wold be based on the simplicity of the music. By far the most accurate way to determine the correct key is to pick out the notes by ear and know enough theory to explain the presence of each note.

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jancivil
KVRAF
19154 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:29 am

from what you wrote, the plugins are doing more harm than good. An algorithm's sense of the use and quality of modes is suspect even if it can be relied on for the notes, and chances seem very high the modes it arrives at are a mistake.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
5114 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Learning scales/chords online? music school?

Post Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:58 am

Yes, the results aren’t helping you if they’re inconsistent and if you don’t understand how those algorithms arrived at those results.

Maybe you’re looking for instant answers when you really should be taking things a step at a time. There are probably thousands of books that can give you a good grounding in theory and harmonic analysis, but as with all things, you have to practice applying that theory to learn how to accurately determine the key of a piece of music, and recognize modulations and dissonance for what they are.

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