[Intro pricing extended] Available now: T-RackS Sunset Sound Studio Reverb

[MadDogE134]

yeah set randomly is better than having a solid flat reflection imo... no real need for science (unless you just want to)... random diffusion at your back is better than no diffusion any day of the week imo cheers

p.s. plus paper books and their covers absorb more waves than a 'painted' flat surface so you get two benefits from the book shelves

[Squids]

Squids,

first of all, dont get any negative thoughts, i just find it funny, but is there a scenario where you are able to answer with just 2 lines instead of whole essay ?

p.s. no need to answer

No

[Squids]

It doesn't take a genius to see what's gone on with this thread. The saddest part is that KVR allows this and that other new releases will undoubtedly emulate it. Looking forward to an 8 page response of why I'm wrong and SSSR is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I bet you are. It's fun to get some attention for complaining. I mean, bottom of the barrel fun that is.

PS. This is how KVR has been for almost 20 years. Welcome to KVR.

[Meffy]

Squids,

first of all, dont get any negative thoughts, i just find it funny, but is there a scenario where you are able to answer with just 2 lines instead of whole essay ?

p.s. no need to answer

No

There's a story, almost certainly apocryphal, that a person dining with then U.S. Vice President Calvin "Silent Cal" Coolidge told him, "I made a bet that I could get more than two words out of you," to which Coolidge replied "You lose."

[Squids]

It doesn't take a genius to see what's gone on with this thread. The saddest part is that KVR allows this and that other new releases will undoubtedly emulate it. Looking forward to an 8 page response of why I'm wrong and SSSR is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

If you're really lucky, they'll give a (probably garbled) version of your comments to a big-name producer and come back with a condescending quote.

Hey man I just quoted you and your thing about spectral images to see what someone like Bruce Botnick would say and yes it was condescending what he said which is "If you're spending your time looking at graphs rather than listening you're in the wrong business" but I actually find that response both hilarious and also genuinely insightful. He has a point! A point that's not just for you but for all of us including me who sometimes find ourselves in analytical or theoretical mode instead of in "listening mode" which is what he's essentially saying. But, some of us can take it and others can't. What he said does seem harsh and it's harsher than I would be about it but sometimes that's what we need. A reality check.

PS. That wasn't garbled it was verbatim. Cut and dry. I just think you just didn't like it which is understandable.

[Squids]

There's a story, almost certainly apocryphal, that a person dining with then U.S. Vice President Calvin "Silent Cal" Coolidge told him, "I made a bet that I could get more than two words out of you," to which Coolidge replied "You lose."

Haha! Good one.

Yeah, I know my posts are long. It's always been that way. Sometimes I keep it short though... like when I realize how busy I am and how little sleep I've had!

Btw I am at Sunset Sound studio right now. But, I didn't sleep at all last night so I can tell you that the couch here in Studio 1 is very nice. The plug-in doesn't offer a studio couch unfortunately. That you still have to appreciate in real life.

[Squids]

I went from 'no way José,' to 'better wait for the inevitable 70% discount,' to 'have to wait due to other expenses' to buying it. I think it is really good. I'm def not a shill.

Question: if an acoustic instrument or voice is recorded in less than an optimal setting, how will placing that track in one of the rooms or iso chambers improve it?

I'm at the studio now and I told Paul Camarata, the owner of Sunset Sound, your story regarding your experience with the plug-in and he loved it.

My answer to your question is this. If by "less than optimal setting" you mean the acoustics of the room doesn't sound good... like if it's not treated well acoustically and has unwanted reflections... then actually adding SSSR or any reverb could potentially make worse. More muddy. You could try various "fixing" plug-ins that are out there to clean it up first. Or you can just go for it and see if it sounds good anyway because the ears tell the truth. Every recording and instrument is different so it depends. We're just talking in theory here.

But, if you have a nice recording in a dry/dampened space you have a lot of flexibility to use the rooms and iso booths to give it a character that sounds closer to how it would sound if you recorded it at Sunset Sound. Not exact of course. But, within a track it can sound enough like it to give it a very professional pleasing sound. The dryer the better typically for your source sound for maximum flexibility on the ambient processing side.

[Squids]

I understand the interest in having variation in mic placement. Having said that, over the past couple days I was texting with my old co-worker who actually helped setup and record when they were capturing the rooms. He said he helped make the calls on the spots they used in the rooms, and in my experience, they are the standard room mic positions. Anyone who’s worked in the rooms for a while knows the standard go-tos. There were a couple based on documentation from older sessions too - for example Position 3 in studio 2 was one I hadn’t seen before, I had heard people who worked there before me mention it as something that had been done, but I hadn’t seen it in use. Apparently it was based on recall sheets the owner had around.

More than the actual placement of the room mics in each room, since often times they were in relatively the same position session to session, I was interested in how they captured the booths. I wouldn’t normally think about how to mic up the booth ambience - so it was cool to get the low down on what they did.

He also told me that they did captures at varying gain levels on the pres as well.

Maybe if the plug in is well received they’ll consider doing a V2 with some more captures?! I’m sure anyone who has worked there over the years has seen some interesting mic placements, but based on listening I think they captured the essence of the rooms in the most frequently used mic placement areas really, really well.

I do enjoy the dampening options too. Often times gear/cases, mic power supplies etc, would get stacked up in the way of the built in sliding or swinging baffles along the walls, so once you a had settled on a configuration, it would be a chore to reconfigure - nothing like trying to reconfigure a room that people have been working in for a while without touching any mics! Now you just click and audition while you sit back and take another sip of coffee.

Your posts are great. I'm glad you're double posting in GS too. Thank you for sharing your particular insight. I'm at the studio now and a little earlier Paul told me you emailed him to tell him how much you love the plug-in. He was really happy to hear this from someone who worked at the studio who would really know. Paul's a great guy. He's been so accommodating.

[revvy]

Tag team wrestling.

[Meffy]

Tag team wrestling.

Let's see how the metaphor works.

Tag team wrestling usually involves two teams of two people who take turns pretending to wrestle each other, one team of good guys versus a team of bad guys. In the jargon of this weird form of theater masquerading as a sport, the good guys are called "faces" and the bad guys are "heels".

Sometimes. for extra fake drama, whole squads of "heels" flood the ring, beating up on the two "faces". It doesn't work the other way 'round.

I don't see either side in this match as good or bad, but I do see one side flooding the ring.

The thread is much more of a brawl than it should be. Discuss and debate, but there's no excuse for becoming abusive. KVR is for potential buyers AND sellers of musical goods. Any participants who aren't interested in buying, make your point(s) and find something productive, creative even.

[revvy]

fff

[Meffy]

As I said, I don't think either side qualifies as bad guys, certainly including you. Just about everyone at KVR is a good guy in my book (including some who come off as roughnecks, and whom I've had disagreements with). Your metaphor did seem to fit the thread, though. Nothing personal in my reply, I assure you.

I just want to see buyers and sellers exchange ideas, constructive criticism, and opinions without rancor. I know it's a lot to ask but everyone deserves a fair chance.

[MadDogE134]

BTW... thnx IK for posting the intro price deadline. it sure helps to cut out the 'guess work' and gives folks time to accumulate the funds that don't have on hand capital to burn. cheers

[Teneyetus]

I understand the interest in having variation in mic placement. Having said that, over the past couple days I was texting with my old co-worker who actually helped setup and record when they were capturing the rooms. He said he helped make the calls on the spots they used in the rooms, and in my experience, they are the standard room mic positions. Anyone who’s worked in the rooms for a while knows the standard go-tos. There were a couple based on documentation from older sessions too - for example Position 3 in studio 2 was one I hadn’t seen before, I had heard people who worked there before me mention it as something that had been done, but I hadn’t seen it in use. Apparently it was based on recall sheets the owner had around.

More than the actual placement of the room mics in each room, since often times they were in relatively the same position session to session, I was interested in how they captured the booths. I wouldn’t normally think about how to mic up the booth ambience - so it was cool to get the low down on what they did.

He also told me that they did captures at varying gain levels on the pres as well.

Maybe if the plug in is well received they’ll consider doing a V2 with some more captures?! I’m sure anyone who has worked there over the years has seen some interesting mic placements, but based on listening I think they captured the essence of the rooms in the most frequently used mic placement areas really, really well.

I do enjoy the dampening options too. Often times gear/cases, mic power supplies etc, would get stacked up in the way of the built in sliding or swinging baffles along the walls, so once you a had settled on a configuration, it would be a chore to reconfigure - nothing like trying to reconfigure a room that people have been working in for a while without touching any mics! Now you just click and audition while you sit back and take another sip of coffee.

Yes, the dampening options are great. It's really nice to be able to quickly compare them.

Personally, I'm not all that interested in various mic placements. I think they sound great where they are and it's cool the session engineers helped with that. Every room has a sweet spot (sometimes a few more than one, but not many) and it's nice not having to scour through a ton of different impulses to find the one with the best mic location. In the chambers I agree with Squids that it's preferable to have the mics and speakers set where they always are. ISO is also a no brainer in that you want the mic where it always is for the singer. Stereo mics in this case, but I would think the placement would be the same. Or maybe they did something different? If you could share what your friend did for that I'd be curious to hear, but I understand if that's confidential..

The lack of placements that concern me are just the speaker placements in the live rooms. In all three rooms it's just in one single location. Whenever I record impulse responses of a room I always move the speaker to the different places in the room where the musicians would be, while leaving the mics as they are. This way the different instruments in a mix can actually be placed within a room and the early reflections of each will be much more accurately represented than as though they were all standing on top of each other in a single spot. When everything is all set up for an IR capture it is so easy to just move the speaker to a few different places, so it's disappointing that they chose not to do this.

It's interesting that they did captures at varying gain levels on the preamps. I guess this is what Squids was referring to as dynamic harmonic modeling. I understand that the convolution technology that IK is using is proprietary so I don't expect much in the way of explanation, but there is nothing in my use of this reverb that indicates different saturation levels based on input gain. I just did a quick test of the same input at +6dB and then -6dB. After level matching the output they perfectly null.

Maybe I'm missing something in how the various gain level captures are implemented, but to me these really do come across as standard IR convolutions. Very good sounding ones at that, but nothing dynamic about them.

[Teneyetus]

Out of respect for IK MM and for those involved, and since I wasn't there, I don't want to accidentally overstep any boundaries or insert my foot into my mouth by trying to provide more detail. Most of what I was told was actually mentioned in the 4-minute long product video that I believe was linked to earlier in this thread and is also on the product website.

I appreciate your understanding on that matter.

And sorry for a slow reply, I spent the day snowboarding... and even though the snow was not soft.... it was an absolutely wonderful way to spend a Monday!