Newbie MIDI sync recording issues

[dynamo]

I'm a newbie trying to record my first tracks but am having some timing issues but don't know where the problem lies.

My goal: set up my (8-input Focusrite Scarlett 18i20) audio interface to record multiple outputs from a MIDI drum machine in one pass, then set those audio tracks to loop while recording some new tracks (additional drum machine sounds in this case to keep it simple).

So I've set up the empty audio tracks, armed them for REC and checked that their input levels and correct inputs are selected, so off we go and press the REC button.
The audio interface's MIDI OUT is connected to the drum machine's MIDI IN (through a MIDI patchbay for convenience) so this syncs it to Waveform's clock, keeping the tempo right and starting at the right time.

However, when I play back the audio recordings I hear the beginning of the drum beat slightly chopped off. Shouldn't the audio tracks keep in perfect sync with MIDI?
A practical thing I've learnt in this process is to record with Waveform's loop function OFF, or it'll keep overdubbing the drum machine's beat (two 4/4 measures), so I just have it record a little past those two measures, then (when playing back) unarm REC for all those tracks, and loop them to 3 bars.
The irritating thing is that the drum machine also starts playing (and delayed to the recording -I suppose this is the infamous latency thing going on). Is there a way to disable MIDI sync (so I don't have to turn off the drum machine)?
Here's a screenshot of my setup and recorded tracks. Disregard all the (disabled) effects -they're from another project where I tried to set up a multiple effects setup.

Screen Shot 2020-06-17 at 14.37.04.png

[astey]

My suggestion:
When the first beat is cut off, try
- Preroll recording
- Start recording not on the first beat.
- Configure input offset in preferences.
Reason being MTC needs to sync a couple of ticks everytime you hit play.

[dynamo]

Thanks for the above. I'll look up those features and try them out.

But I don't understand; if the MIDI Time Code (MTC) needs to sync a couple of ticks each time, shouldn't the drum machine be delayed in relation to Waveform's audio recording?
By the way, I have Waveform set to output "MIDI clock" (not "MIDI Timecode") which I chose because this is an early MIDI drum machine not taking advantage of that.

Is the sync delay a definable value, or can this vary each time?
What I'm trying to find out is if it's realistic to have MIDI-syncable devices line up exactly at the first bar position in the audio tracks?

[harvon]

some possibilities from another newbie, disregard if they don't make sense
* too much stuff going through usb. What happens if you feed the audio through line-in into pc? Or mix it down to mono?
* you could purge all unnecessary usb and other services in windows
* you said you use midi driver. If this means WIndows midi driver, update / or another driver
* you may want to try some other driver for the focusrite (Or is the manufacture's driver the only working one?)

Does the delay happen when you record or when you play?

[dynamo]

I'm on a Mac.
I don't have any USB devices attached other than a keyboard/mouse and the audio interface, so I can't imagine it being too busy/congested.
I can't see I've mentioned the use of MIDI drivers -what are you referring to?
The delay is in relation to recording: the first downbeat is partly chopped off in the audio recording, and of course the playback reflects that.

[harvon]

USB is one of the optimization targets that windows users finetune when we prepare a PC for DAW. Mac OS must be different 'cause I didn't see it in a couple of lists on mac optimizations.

The MIDI driver - The one you find in Waveform Settings / MIDI Devices / Use MIDI Driver for MIDI Timing (down right). I assume (with uncertainty) this is some driver in the operation system.

So when recording audio, the first downbeat gets party chopped. Then the rest of the record
a) can be in sync or
b) can be shifted to the left by the duration of the chopped part or
c) can be out of sync in some other way

Do midi and audio tracks stay in sync when you record both in the same take for a longer time?

I bought a midi->usb cable to connect a Korg M1 synth to W11 and I'm beginning to worry how that setup works...

Have you already read this one? https://www.admiralbumblebee.com/music/ ... art-7.html

[dynamo]

Thanks for the link! I hadn't read it before, so that's useful info. Hopefully things have changed since that was written (Waveform 9).
I'm not sure what's going on as I'm a beginner (with Waveform and DAWs in general), but did notice that the first beat was chopped off.

Come to think of it.... I've had an almost full hard drive for a while and am in the midst of upgrading to a newer OS and transferring my files over to a larger hard drive. I'll be re-installing all my software (including Waveform), plugins etc. so maybe I should consider that as a possible source of the problems! I've been so preoccupied with learning the DAW that I might just have disregarded the obvious.

Having received suggestions from you and Astey along with the upgrades mentioned I have a feeling this is solvable. I'll post back once it's done.

[dynamo]

So I finally got the time to use Waveform again....
I figured out how to make it record without skipping part of the first beat -by adjusting the "Pre-delay" in the MIDI devices settings as shown near the bottom of this screenshot:

Tracktion sync delay setup.png

This of course messes with the position of the recording, shifting it slightly later (195 ms delayed according to my configuration above) than 1:1:000.
I haven't yet gotten round to see what happens when I record some new synth tracks which are MIDI sequenced externally and MIDI-synced to Waveform. Will those new tracks be in complete sync with the first tracks I recorded, everything being delayed by 195 ms, or will it be out of sync as the external MIDI sequencer triggers Waveform at the very start (1:1:000) while the recording is delayed, thereby causing an offset?

[dynamo]

... I've been experimenting a little more with a small, simple setup: an old MIDI drum machine with a simple kick/snare beat and with two individual inputs to the audio interface (i.e. so I can process each drum sound individually with effects, EQ, panning, levels etc.).

1) So I've ensured that pre-delay is set to delay the audio recording. I set it to the maximum (-250 ms) to make it simple.
I also ensured "Send MIDI clock" is enabled in the same Waveform preference section ("MIDI devices"), and that my drum machine responds to MIDI click (it's too old to handle MIDI timecode).

2) Then I set up the first and second track for recording, making sure the appropriate inputs from the audio interface are selected for each of the two tracks. Once both are armed for recording I press Waveform's "record" button and off we go!
The drum machine starts up and the two tracks are recorded. After a little while I stop and have those two tracks recorded.

They play fine when pressing Waveform's "play" button, but I'm having trouble looping as the start doesn't match the start, and I haven't figured out how to accurately adjust this, so I leave the loop option alone for now and disable the rec arming for both tracks.

3) Next I arm two new tracks the same way for recording, press the "rewind" button, then press "Record" to record those new tracks and finally disarm recording when done.

When playing back all 4 tracks I hear them in perfect sync with a slight phasing, so at least this part works out as it should! But what to do about the delayed recording so that I can set Waveform to loop without a beat mismatch?

Waveform -delayed recording.png