The thread title refers to my experience loading WAVE files with existing loop information into the Multi Sampler.
For instance, unencrypted ESX24 format simply used many WAVE files and an overall definition file to organize sample zones and such. Each sample (WAVE file) was already properly looped according to this file format specification document.
https://sites.google.com/site/musicgapi ... ile-format
Multi-Sampler makes using properly looped samples really tedious by ignoring the looping information. This is a shame as Multi-Sampler is otherwise a rather nice and quick sampler plugin.
Is there going to be a point where this is properly supported?
Thanks!
Multi-Sampler doesn't support WAVE looping?
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Where is the "looping information" in a wav file? I didn't know that was a thing. Are you sure that's not proprietary to the ESX24 format, and stored in the definition file that uses for sample zones etc?
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35475 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
Its not external, and although its 'sort of' proprietary, its standardised. The .wav file format is extensible, and can contain additional data chunks. For example, what is commonly known as 'acidized' or 'acid' wav files, after the Acid software, contain tempo and pitch data. Similarly with loop markers.
If a program doesn't understand a chunk in a given wav file, it ignores it.
If a program doesn't understand a chunk in a given wav file, it ignores it.
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
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- KVRAF
- 2417 posts since 17 Jun, 2003
Okay, every day's a school day, I guess ... so given ESX24 is a sampler, and you can trim the start and end times in it, are we saying that those start and end times get written back into the individual wav file, when you make changes in the sampler? Rather than being stored in the kit that's made up of those samples?
"my gosh it's a friggin hardware"
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- KVRian
- 1300 posts since 3 May, 2005 from Victoria, BC
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- KVRist
- 37 posts since 3 Sep, 2016
"acidized" wav support would be HUGE!
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 68 posts since 26 Nov, 2011
Indeed. Most people don't know this is based on the IFF (Interleaved File Format) developed for the Amiga back in the 80's. The Amiga devs wanted a file format that could be extended to any type of data allowing any type of application to read and use the chunks it recognized. Sort of an early XML/JSON thing. The Amiga team was WAAAAY ahead of the rest of the industry. I remember friends being amazed that I could format a floppy and continue working.whyterabbyt wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:59 am Its not external, and although its 'sort of' proprietary, its standardised. The .wav file format is extensible, and can contain additional data chunks. For example, what is commonly known as 'acidized' or 'acid' wav files, after the Acid software, contain tempo and pitch data. Similarly with loop markers.
If a program doesn't understand a chunk in a given wav file, it ignores it.
Unfortunately the Amiga team was managed and marketed by idiots. 
The actual looping info in a WAV file is contained in the "smpl" data chunk and it's quite flexible.
Last edited by ScottAxxe on Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 68 posts since 26 Nov, 2011
R,FigBug wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:41 pm Can you share some of these files with me at roland@tracktion.com and I'll look into it?
Thanks,
R
Will do. I will find some smaller samples and make them available to you. Thanks for the effort.
I'm not expecting full ESX24 support like AIR Structure2, but it would be great if a sample was read in and looped properly automatically. It would be so much easier setting up sampler instruments from already looped samples. On top of that samples with "cue points" like release sections will play with audible transients unless those chunks are handled correctly.
Scott
Last edited by ScottAxxe on Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 68 posts since 26 Nov, 2011
Roland,
Just shared two looped audio samples with you. Both are looped sustain samples with release sections at the end. As the structure of the samples is ignored, the nonlinear transition to the release sections causes an audible transient and the loops are ignored as well.
Let me know if you need other samples. I have found at least two VST samplers that handle this correctly. The very old DirectWave VST from Image-Line and Structure 2 from AIR. I'm sure Kontakt does as well but I'm not spending the money to find out.
Thanks for looking into it.
Scott
Just shared two looped audio samples with you. Both are looped sustain samples with release sections at the end. As the structure of the samples is ignored, the nonlinear transition to the release sections causes an audible transient and the loops are ignored as well.
Let me know if you need other samples. I have found at least two VST samplers that handle this correctly. The very old DirectWave VST from Image-Line and Structure 2 from AIR. I'm sure Kontakt does as well but I'm not spending the money to find out.
Thanks for looking into it.
Scott
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- Beware the Quoth
- 35475 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair
I have no idea how ESX24 specifically does it. It could be internal to the wav file, it could be an external file.chico.co.uk wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:13 pm Okay, every day's a school day, I guess ... so given ESX24 is a sampler, and you can trim the start and end times in it, are we saying that those start and end times get written back into the individual wav file, when you make changes in the sampler? Rather than being stored in the kit that's made up of those samples?
An idiot on Set Theory:
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."
"In some cases there is an object called red that contains everything that is red. In much the same way a pot is a plate."