Multiparameters in MSuperLooper - inconsistent behaviour (*solved, video in replies*)

[BennyG]

Apologies in advance for the long post, there's a bit of a process to describe here! I've been getting stuck in with MSuperLooper for about a week now and it's a really fantastic bit of software. However, I find myself hitting a bit of a brick wall when it comes to using multiparameters. I'm hoping if I describe my specific usage, someone can jump in and tell me where I'm going wrong...

The scenario

What I'm attempting to do is create a "Record-then-next" button on my MIDI controller, which will do the following (synced to transport in my sequencer):

Tap button --> track records for x bars --> at the end of recording, the next track is auto-selected

This would allow me to use one button to cue up all my loops, leaving other buttons free for various mutes, loop reversal and other commands I'll use to create some structure and variation in the parts I'm laying down. I first attempted to achieve this by binding both the 'Record' and 'Next' parameters to a single MIDI note, but that doesn't work because 'Next' gets triggered first and then I find myself recording straight into Track 2 with an empty Track 1.

The same thing happened when I tried to use a single multiparameter to control 'Record' and 'Next' with their behaviours set to Trigger mode - doesn't matter what order you put the commands in, you always end up on the next track before the recording begins.

So, I finally hit a bit of a breakthrough when I realised there is a Switch Time control setting in the behaviours menu. This time I set up two multiparameters, one for 'Record' with no delay on the trigger, one for 'Next' with a small delay (lots of trial-and-error to get the delay time right). Then I attached both multiparameters to the same MIDI note generated by my controller.

The result

Enough with the chatter! Here's a rough video of that in action, almost working perfectly (you only need to watch about the first minute):



Spot the problem? The 'Next' button engages as I near the end of recording the first loop, but then stays lit and doesn't disengage for another 15 seconds or so. As a result, I need to wait for the loop on Track 1 to play through three times before I can initiate recording onto Track 2. I want to start recording on Track 2 as soon as Track 1 has finished playing through a single loop iteration after recording, but I can't (will post video examples in follow-up comments).

I suspect this is something to do with the Switch Time I've set on the Trigger mode of my 'Next' multiparameter. I know this setting affects how much time passes for the 'Next' command to kick in, but does the delay time also define how long the button is held down / lit up in its 'active' state? If that's true, how do I define my Trigger behaviour so that the button will activate after a set length of time, but disengage instantly, in time for a subsequent activation?

I can post screenshots of my multiparameter settings if that helps?

[BennyG]

Broken example #1

Here's what happens when I try to initiate recording on Track 2 after one repetition of the first loop (when the 'Next' button is still lit up)

As you can see, recording to Track 2 is successful. However the second 'Next' input doesn't happen and I end up with the focus stuck on Track 2. I have to manually mouse down to select Track 3 in order to start playing my lead part...

[BennyG]

Broken example #2

This one is even worse. If I wait for two repetitions of the first loop before starting to record on Track 2, we end up with a complete mess of part-recorded loops and unwanted recording into Track 3:



Can anyone explain what's going on here?

[BennyG]

I suspect this is something to do with the Switch Time I've set on the Trigger mode of my 'Next' multiparameter. I know this setting affects how much time passes for the 'Next' command to kick in, but does the delay time also define how long the button is held down / lit up in its 'active' state? If that's true, how do I define my Trigger behaviour so that the button will activate after a set length of time, but disengage instantly, in time for a subsequent activation?

A-ha! I've finally cracked it, and this was indeed the issue. For anyone interested (which is probably no-one ), here's what was up:

• I'd initially set the Switch Time of the 'Next' button to 4 bars (using the sync settings in the Switch Time pop-up menu), but this was making MSuperLooper select Track 2 before the recording on Track 1 was finished, even with 'Immediate track switch' turned off.

• How I tried fixing this was to just keep increasing the Switch Time until it would let me record the whole 4 bars and then select the next track. But this is what also introduced the weird behaviour in my videos above, where the 'Next' button stayed active for way longer than I wanted, stopping me from initiating another "Record-and-Next" command from my MIDI controller.

• What I've since come to understand is exactly how the Switch Time operates for a button with two states (on/off) - when you initiate the switch, you effectively start a timer which follows a linear progression from 0-100%. Because there are only two states, the off state is active from 0-50% and then the on state becomes active between 50-100%. That means the button turns on halfway through your chosen Switch Time i.e. at 2 bars! The solution isn't to increase the time, but to keep it at 4 bars and activate the Transition Shape dialogue, drawing in a curve that stays below 50% for longer, thus only activating the button right at the end of the 4 bars, like this:
  
  

Phew! This is some complex sh*t Melda!

I can make a tutorial video explaining all of the above, if anyone would find it helpful?

Also, there are a few odd quirks to MSuperLooper that I've come across during all this experimentation, and I'd like to propose a couple of feature requests. I'll probably start a new thread for that though, as I'm sure nobody has made it down this far and I don't want to keep talking to myself!

[ericzang]

Thanks for your tips and insights, will be interested to read your list of quirks and suggestions.

[BennyG]

Thanks for your tips and insights, will be interested to read your list of quirks and suggestions.

Thanks for replying! I think what I'm going to do is make a proper video detailing everything I've discovered above, just to describe it all in a much clearer way with better examples. And then I'll do another video with all the quirks and possible feature requests.

[BennyG]

Thanks for your tips and insights, will be interested to read your list of quirks and suggestions.

Thanks for replying! I think what I'm going to do is make a proper video detailing everything I've discovered above, just to describe it all in a much clearer way with better examples. And then I'll do another video with all the quirks and possible feature requests.

...and here is that video, summarising this whole thread and about a week's worth of experimenting into a single 20-minute clip of me clicking about until I find a method that actually works!

[ericzang]

Hi Ben, I think this will solve your sync to tempo issue. It uses a modulator set to single shot mode and synced. I've set it up to respond to note 39 as in your video. Check the MIDI Notes assignment window, Mod 1, and multiparam "Bars and Wait". I think it works more reliably when the midi trigger is sent around beat 4 before the desired recording bar. You can copy and paste in this preset:

Code: Select all

$eNq9WNtu4zYQfc9XEAxQtMDGJqmLJVTSYnNxYcBO3Mi7LfrG2IwjhBZViUqTfei3F6R8IZnEG-RBfpBHI55zRqI4mmHy+XnDwROrm0KUKcQDBAErl2JVlOsUtvL+LIKfs5NklrcVq6dCVKxumJRFuW7AaQoxBKdfWilunli9au9SiLaOXNJapvAsUo5Ldk9bLs9p3aTQh+B0stmwVUEls3CKvsnphk1ZuZYPnTN-KZedzqKmy8cL0ZYyhQEEF4JzWjVsNWu5LOa0ppvp+GZOS8Y18kKUshacs7q5KukdZ6vO3dY1K+W8Zg2Tk8sUXv317x+0kOCaPUvw8zkrf4HgalVIUefFd5ZCPBrFn6IIQzC9zSteSMn0FZxCjL3IdZMUkgBDMKPP0-HNORfLx47HIxAcQmWS1c3+FnRk10Kyt4LGEHzbTVCM4yAgMEvy9m7O23VRjv-EWdKZuT0xb0aQM86Wkq06RArRJwR3+GaYJUObKkuGltKJKUx6Eya2sNebsGcL+70J+7Zw0JtwYAuHvQmHtvCoN+GRLRz1JhzZwnFvwrEtjFF-GQQ50j0mLyd74f7SF3byF+4vgWEng+H+Uhh2chjuL4lhJ4vh-tIYVnlsOr5pMnVEwPyMj2v2d8vK5UunLVYshdei3lCu+HdlARi3nN-Scs10sbT3X9ONGs+eJQTfKG+Zrhq0dU6Xj22lzodZMptcTm5VdWNpz+izKjA0Ji-KNWf5g5D60uFUw7Y0V+UT46JiwyzJi3VJOdh5LlmlqjMMD4OyZC6KUoIxp+vmPIXY9xSH60QQPKcQszOMIHhJ4Rl+fxQaxFFAcBz6EcLB-xl+fHQch5Hv+3gUex8aPUI+Dn2sCsEfR77-HRnsdQ9DXRoenmMuWQUmkm2QxmkTG6bpNv3EsD3D9g07MOzQsEeGHRl2fLANemKEQIwQiDnGCIEYIRAjBGKEQIwQiBECMUIwKD1D1mA3yA1ug9pg3hKrx61Ot32FXv6SVb+3tJTFdyp11a3f5WG3CrJEdSRgO96H1iKbP9CGbdfPUC3-7q-JThKjss+ME2T0KSnEXgDdVXtY6k4muGVLUa+U1IECO3ShE9+bDLtsgm0u4nCNjnLNaP0IWOnE4zkc0VGOr+VK2HjfwcdH8fOaPRWibWyOwOZQi-QIh86vFj508Pgo-oIzWgMuRGWzjBwW8gEWqTpemyZyaLwfTLD6DFDObZLYIfF-RKKaef1Om2-xSeJ0rJnjsD9+3ecu-6eQy4eu2U2hms9332qbDIOLB1rq5t6ZgI74phze3N8fIZ6JVcupFHUDzhQGYPU-uZwAvRUAqt1wfaPurZ0kTu+eOQ4Etrscu-U6wLtvwIhgCH77OrkQXNQpRGg8Hn8Zj7Wv22lQt0D2tYBdGYAufLV5An6im+pXoLYrIMgrtt040Iod5vwF3Bd1Y97N+5WFkVwGxItQHHTHjz06nQEh2NKhARphn0SBPoZGhTL8YAD+61pnX6yd7R4uuKN1Y4qGJDhoDRAO9ew5U-PKo+ZzoXKlnpDARyhEakI6Wb3RBFR5M0XDLJlidSDq4CnyhWokFgTspxMHr9Fqj+ZttOoFFiovbtEh8rGL9t5Fq3J+obKiRpM4ROp1stH+u2hVkS9UPtToEJHL1+jgXbQqqodv7AQ22cl-5qhiZw==

[BennyG]

Wow, thanks Eric! Really wasn't expecting that. Will give it a shot after work....