Steven Slate VSX Headphone

[bmanic]

They are definitely at their optimum while using the software as there is some EQ calibration going on (just like with Sonarworks). They do work very well as standalone headphones too. A bit on the warm/dark side (which is something I personally prefer and the reason I don't get along with Beyerdynamic headphones at all).

I have a question : How good is VSX with low frequencies ?
The music i make is all about kicks and the low-end, and Sonarworks is just not precise enough in that department. So i wonder if Slate VSX is more precise, especially considering phase/timing/amount of the low frequencies ?

I have no idea how accurate it actually is but so far it's been exceptionally good for precisely the bass response. I've never been this confident in balancing the low frequencies in a mix with headphones. Heck, I suspect I get better results with VSX headphones + the software than I do on my genelec + genelec sub system I have at the studio. They are very impressive in this regard.

That strange patent pending "holes in the frame" thing, combined with some of the bass heavy "room emulations" seems to really work. It's hard to explain how it sounds as it doesn't sound anything like any of my other headphones. It's the first time I get a sort of "feel" for extreme lows at around 20Hz.

For the record: I've never liked Sonarworks. Not sure what filters/EQ DSP voodoo they are using but whatever it is, it doesn't sound at all good to me. For speaker correction I much prefer Mathaudio RoomEQ and for headphones I use Toneboosters Morphit + Goodhertz CanOpener combo.

[bmanic]

.. also a warning!

I just got home from a recording session and don't have my trusty RME Babyface Pro at home at the moment. So I just plugged my VSX Headphones directly to the output of this crappy old windows laptop of mine (Clevo p170em chassis with various custom components) and it absolutely hilariously fails to drive the VSX headphones properly. I lost almost all the bass and treble.. seems like a horrible impedance mismatch or something. So it looks like the VSX headphones needs at least somewhat of a decent headphone output to actually work.

Haven't tested my Mac Mini yet or any Apple product.. those might fare better but just in case, if you guys are interested in these headphones, treat them as actual high impedance studio headphones. It seems like they can't be driven with any basic consumer product.

[Ploki]

damn i wanted to disregard them as another slate snake-oil product but i generally trust bmanic on shit, so i'm conflicted now.

[Fermatta]

Founder's edition is just some stickers put on the headphones? lol...

[Janine___]

Ordered one immediately. I've tried to adjust the acoustics at my home studio on a path to upgrading for 1000€+ speakers, but had recently come to the conclusion the room's never going to be nowhere near good enough. I was looking for a headphones-only gear upgrade when the Slate thing dropped. Can't wait to try them out.

I've been mixing on headphones for 15 years now and would be happy to keep it that way, there's no way I'll have a proper room for monitors available anytime soon (I really don't understand why people insist using speakers in sh*tty rooms). I do use speakers to check on things, but since I've moved often, I haven't gotten used to any room for long enough to learn its oddities, so as to take them into account while mixing with monitors.

Hence my solution has been - and will be - cheap speakers (small Genelecs were my staplepiece for years) I know and use mainly for resting my ears, and proper headphones. So yup, really looking forward to what the Slates have to offer. Haven't read a single negative thing about them. But then not everybody needs what they offer tbh.

[bmanic]

damn i wanted to disregard them as another slate snake-oil product but i generally trust bmanic on shit, so i'm conflicted now.

Cheers mate!

I do really think these things are quite disruptive, in a good way. I'm getting seriously impressive results out of them.

At first during beta I was like "wtf? Seriously? This is it???" and had huge trouble adjusting to them. We did discover a bunch of bugs and problems with the whole beta team and the software side improved immensely! What really made me "click" with them was simply using the headphones + software all day long for months. Somehow my brain has now calibrated itself and doesn't hear the "room" any more. I just hear a rather strange virtual representation of speakers.. strange in that I fully realize and sort of hear that I'm wearing headphones.. so this is NOT a replacement for 100% accurate, fully transcendent illusion of a real room or speakers. I suspect we are still decades from such magic voodoo products.

But what it does do exceptionally well is help you get mixes to translate. Once you 100% trust what you are hearing in VSX you can actually just go on and mix to your own best ability. Hear too much mud? Cut it out. Hear that something is lacking a bit of highs? Add it in! Something feels too dynamic? Add a compressor! Something is buried in the mix? Add some distortion + EQ or just make it a bit louder! Trust the virtual speakers and reference the other "rooms" for additional clues about the mix.

Once you do this and then take the mix out into the real world, you'll probably utterly floored by how good the mix sounds. This is exactly what happened to me. Was really quite humbling as I thought I was already doing pretty good mixes with my existing headphone setup at home. In the first month using VSX I literally made equal or better mixes at home than I've done at work!

There is a caveat though: As it is somewhat HRTF based, it will be impossible to use for some people. Luckily the HRTF system Slate is using seems rather mild so it didn't affect me.. but I've got a somewhat average head and ear lobe sizes. A person with abnormal sized heads or ears may be "outside the range" of Slate's HRTF implementation and thus might feel very uncomfortable using the software. Luckily this is apparently a rather small % of people and Slate has a very good return policy, at least in the states, as far as I know.

2nd caveat: You do need to give these proper time of exposure. This is not an instant gratification product, at least it wasn't for me. I had to put some effort into understanding the product and what it can do for me. I trained my brain to get used to the virtual environments, listened to tons of what I would call amazing professional reference mixes, in various genres. Only then did I start mixing my own stuff.

EDIT: Forgot to say that the headphones themselves are really good, so no matter if the VSX stuff works or not, the actual physical product itself is good. They are not audiophile hyped and scooped but rather the opposite. Quite reserved and muted but in a balanced way.

Cheers!
bM

[legendCNCD]

Ayyy, 16.10. now

@bmanic I've been mixing with AKG K712Pro now for 7 years I think.. will be VERY interesting to get "inside" again after so long time, especially using something larger than HS80's. This shitty etelä-suomi apartment is un freaking usable for monitors.

[bmanic]

Hahahaha etelä-suomi appartement.. I hear ya! If you ever find yourself in Kallio neighbourhood, gimme a PM and I'll treat you to a shitty cup of coffee and some Tupla at our studio.

Heck, I have a pair of VSX headphones in the studio to try out if you want to hear them in action. Tervetuloa entiselle Bad Sauna studiolle kallioon! Mä tarjoon kahvit ja suklaat.

I absolutely love my AKG K701 headphones but unfortunately they are falling apart at the seams. Literally held together with glue and 3rd party rubber bands. VSX has taken over the show.

[Ploki]

i think i have the same K701?
K701 are white? GF has those, i have K702, both around a decade old. My K702 are falling apart too.
They always had around 10dB too little bass for my taste

[TS-12]

They are definitely at their optimum while using the software as there is some EQ calibration going on (just like with Sonarworks). They do work very well as standalone headphones too. A bit on the warm/dark side (which is something I personally prefer and the reason I don't get along with Beyerdynamic headphones at all).

I have a question : How good is VSX with low frequencies ?
The music i make is all about kicks and the low-end, and Sonarworks is just not precise enough in that department. So i wonder if Slate VSX is more precise, especially considering phase/timing/amount of the low frequencies ?

I have no idea how accurate it actually is but so far it's been exceptionally good for precisely the bass response. I've never been this confident in balancing the low frequencies in a mix with headphones. Heck, I suspect I get better results with VSX headphones + the software than I do on my genelec + genelec sub system I have at the studio. They are very impressive in this regard.

That strange patent pending "holes in the frame" thing, combined with some of the bass heavy "room emulations" seems to really work. It's hard to explain how it sounds as it doesn't sound anything like any of my other headphones. It's the first time I get a sort of "feel" for extreme lows at around 20Hz.

For the record: I've never liked Sonarworks. Not sure what filters/EQ DSP voodoo they are using but whatever it is, it doesn't sound at all good to me. For speaker correction I much prefer Mathaudio RoomEQ and for headphones I use Toneboosters Morphit + Goodhertz CanOpener combo.

That’s not good news to be about the impedenace mismatch. I was planning to try vsx but I’m not planning to buy a headphone amp just to drive vsx headphones.

[bmanic]

That’s not good news to be about the impedenace mismatch. I was planning to try vsx but I’m not planning to buy a headphone amp just to drive vsx headphones.

What sound card do you have at this moment? I don't think you need a separate headphone amp.

[TS-12]

That’s not good news to be about the impedenace mismatch. I was planning to try vsx but I’m not planning to buy a headphone amp just to drive vsx headphones.

What sound card do you have at this moment? I don't think you need a separate headphone amp.

Steinberg ur22 and mackie producer 2•2. But I’m planning on getting either RME, Motu, uad, or ssl2+

[bmanic]

I'm pretty sure every one of those would work just fine. They are all much more capable than stock audio outputs on computers/mobile phones.

I have zero issues with my RME Babyface Pro.

[legendCNCD]

At last, they are coming towards me

[lfm]

There is a caveat though: As it is somewhat HRTF based, it will be impossible to use for some people. Luckily the HRTF system Slate is using seems rather mild so it didn't affect me.. but I've got a somewhat average head and ear lobe sizes. A person with abnormal sized heads or ears may be "outside the range" of Slate's HRTF implementation and thus might feel very uncomfortable using the software. Luckily this is apparently a rather small % of people and Slate has a very good return policy, at least in the states, as far as I know.

I've been trying this out
http://anaglyph.dalembert.upmc.fr/

which can be set to different custom head sizes.

Also common for plugins to have loads of head models to see what fits you better.
Like Panorama 6 which I have
https://wavearts.com/products/plugins/panorama-6/

Looking Windows Sonic and Dolby Atmos as well, but they just don't take surround 5.1 or 7.1 as is, seems programmers/mixers need to encode and then listening device should be able to calibrate is my thought, since each head is different.

Common to all these above is that they claim to do binaural virtual 3D sound or surround by spatial processing.

I would like to see a test for 5.1 or 7.1 that just test "this is right front, this is upper rear left" etc to see when you are close to what your head is doing to what you hear.

So seems strange if Slate Vsx is just one head size which will sound different to every person - unless calibrated, I mean.

I have yet not heard the sensation of something actually is heard as being right in front of you, if you closed you eyes. I mean straight eye level in front of you.

It's all expand you head and it's in your head. Everything front and back seems to me just from nose to butt - pretty much. That it would fool you to reach for something in a spot in the room - just not there yet it seems to me.

Loads of demos for Atmos out there and others that claim doing 3D audio or binaural surround for you. Since you should be able to listen in normal stereo phones.

And also phones need to emulate cross bleed between ears as speaker do in a room. That is always what strikes you going from phones to speakers, something is usually off in speakers.

Focusrite had this VRM box that were to emulate the standard monitors of common brand in a room - but never heard one.

Seems all research for this binaural processing is not capturing how our brain perceive things through the head and ears.

Seems to me Slate Vsx is pretty much this VRM box and maybe he did a better job. He probably branded some standard, but decent phones, and then it's all software. Tried to emulate a car and other speaker stuff - that is what VRM box claimed too.