[disclaimer]I know there are many more urgent things people are waiting for[/disliamer]
I had a thought this weekend and it struck me that it might be an interesting thing to have incorporated into tracktion (or any sequencer for that matter).
I've never been comfortable using traditional panning; the results always sound slightly disturbing and artificial to me, especially when 'hard' panning or listening to panned stuff on headphones.
So my idea was to build a little unit that would introduce independent delays to the left and right channel, and use this delaying as the main mechanism for giving the audio a sense of left-right position, rather than just changing the channel's relative volumes like a traditional pan control does.
I found that a Reaktor module already exists which works this way (i'm sure there are other devices out there too)and the results sound really good to me.. much more 'open' and natural.
http://www.nativeinstruments.de/index.p ... patchid=17
Anyway, i wanted to suggest that it might be possible to incorporate a similar 'advanced panning' system into tracktion, to (optionally) replace the existing 'pan property' (for audio clips) and pan filter (for tracks).
The most realistic sounding pan (that would still be very light on cpu use i think) would use a combination of channel delay and volume attenuation.
I'd find it a much more useful tool for mixing with than the standard pan. anyone else?
or does anyone have an attachment to the traditional pan that they can explain?
FR advanced panning
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
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- KVRAF
- 3441 posts since 15 Mar, 2003
The device in that link isn't about panning as much as for use with headphones to help create a more natural sound when using headphones.
When listening with speakers your right ear hears the left speaker with a slight delay relative to your left ear based on your head width (hence, the head size parameter in that plug-in)and visa versa for your left ear.
When listening with headphones the ears are isolated and each ear only hears it's own speaker creating that artificial excessive pan sound.
You can create a fix for this using a Rack filter.
Cross-feed the right input through a vol filter into the left channel at a slightly reduced volume and do the same with the left channel.
Now put a delay on each cross-feed of a few milliseconds.
When it is set up properly you will hear a slight reduction in stereo spread (it will sound more natural) and it will sound fuller.
You can find info on the amount of cross-feed and delay by googling.
When listening with speakers your right ear hears the left speaker with a slight delay relative to your left ear based on your head width (hence, the head size parameter in that plug-in)and visa versa for your left ear.
When listening with headphones the ears are isolated and each ear only hears it's own speaker creating that artificial excessive pan sound.
You can create a fix for this using a Rack filter.
Cross-feed the right input through a vol filter into the left channel at a slightly reduced volume and do the same with the left channel.
Now put a delay on each cross-feed of a few milliseconds.
When it is set up properly you will hear a slight reduction in stereo spread (it will sound more natural) and it will sound fuller.
You can find info on the amount of cross-feed and delay by googling.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
thanks pt, that's interesting.
what i was wondering about, is whether theres some advantage of 'traditional panning' without any channel delay, that i'm missing.. i have a feeling there might be.
what i was wondering about, is whether theres some advantage of 'traditional panning' without any channel delay, that i'm missing.. i have a feeling there might be.
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- KVRAF
- 1789 posts since 17 Mar, 2004 from Bretagne, the west of France
You don't even have to build it as a tracktion rack.
The blueline serie of digilogue has a vst called bluestereo wich does exactly that.
Just for your information
Rony
The blueline serie of digilogue has a vst called bluestereo wich does exactly that.
Just for your information
Rony
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Any delays will affect mono compatibility.. might not be an issue for you though..cbit wrote:thanks pt, that's interesting.
what i was wondering about, is whether theres some advantage of 'traditional panning' without any channel delay, that i'm missing.. i have a feeling there might be.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
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- KVRAF
- 3441 posts since 15 Mar, 2003
Sorry, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what delay has to do with panning. How would you use delay to place a sound where you want it in the stereo field?
That Blueline stereo plug does something completely different.
That Blueline stereo plug does something completely different.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
It's useful in the perceived soundstage. If I'm not mistaken, this is all that a stereo "widener" does, too, no? Introduce a delay?
Greg
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 6740 posts since 25 Mar, 2002 from sheffield, england
Short delays combined with filtering can be used to emulate the effect of having a head between two ears.. if you see what I meanPT wrote:Sorry, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see what delay has to do with panning. How would you use delay to place a sound where you want it in the stereo field?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
PT: yes, what platinum ears said.
The ear closest to the sound source experiences the sound slightly before the further ear does... and the furthest ear hears things slightly more dampened because your head absorbs some frequencies.
(i think stereo wideners split the incoming audio up into frequency ranges and apply channel delays to those ranges seperately.. and overall the delays will tend to balance each other out so that the result won't sound like it's been skewed to the left or right)
The ear closest to the sound source experiences the sound slightly before the further ear does... and the furthest ear hears things slightly more dampened because your head absorbs some frequencies.
(i think stereo wideners split the incoming audio up into frequency ranges and apply channel delays to those ranges seperately.. and overall the delays will tend to balance each other out so that the result won't sound like it's been skewed to the left or right)