MAutoVolume - what's the button to press for "read and write" automation?

[djsputty]

I'm watching this tutorial and on the previous interface of MAutoVolume, there was the function to "read and write" automation.

What's the button that maps to these functions now?

I'm staring at the new one and there's a ton of buttons on the right that don't mean anything to me, and the manual doesn't state anything about it either.

[Burillo]

i think it was removed because the feeling was that it does more harm than good.

[djsputty]

Thanks for answering. Curious why would that be the case? I find this frustrating because to me the speed gains/reduction doesn't make immediate sense and I wanted to see the automation to see what was happening.

What kind of harm would that cause?

[DPhil]

Get one of the Hornet autogain plugins, they can do that. There's even a "pro" version if you need more detectors and options. waves can do it too.

[Burillo]

Thanks for answering. Curious why would that be the case? I find this frustrating because to me the speed gains/reduction doesn't make immediate sense and I wanted to see the automation to see what was happening.

What kind of harm would that cause?

i think it had to do with reaction speed and how DAW automation writing wasn't fast enough and you were getting incomplete automation because of that. Vojtech can shine more light on this, but i'm pretty sure this was the reasoning.

[steve2KVR]

I use MAV pretty extensively and my advice would be to not do any automation at all. Just let it do its thing, and a little can go a long way. Use the meter section in "graphs" mode and "tweak" until you have what the track needs. There is a learning curve and the docs need to read very carefully for sure.

If you search this forum you will find a quite a number of threads regarding this topic that will answer your question about removing it. There are also several vids out there as well...good luck.../s~

[Soundplex]

my advice would be to not do any automation at all. Just let it do its thing

Automation can be copied to other elements and being inverted and such. This is a huge help in mixing elements. Further more no plugins works perfect, automation can easily be corrected in spots were needed. There's a reason users keep asking for it and other devs have not removed this functionality...

[steve2KVR]

...if it works for you, then go for it, no. worries here...our work flows are clearly different...Cheers!.../s~

[mibby]

I agree, seeing the automation would be helpful, but Vojtech had his reasons for removing it. I apologize for the lengthy reply, but I've found MAutoVolume to be extremely useful AND easy to use and I'm hoping this might explain why. (Other favorites are MAutoAlign and MDrumEnhancer.)

I use MAV pretty extensively...
If you search this forum you will find a quite a number of threads regarding this topic that will answer your question about removing it. There are also several vids out there as well...good luck.../s~

I was going to suggest this too. Chandler has a couple of really good ones. Also, the forum threads aree a great way to find tips from other users and sometimes suggestions from Vojtech too.

I recently did my own "shootout" to find the best vocal gain leveling (non-compressor) for when I'm setting up a mix. The goal was to get the most transparent, efficient and least "fiddly" FX chain and NOT use clip-gain unless absolutely necessary. I think I tried 6 different levelers including MAV. (Hornet Autogain, Sonic Anomaly Tri-leveler, ERA5 Voice Leveler, WAProduction Outlaw, maybe another one too... Oh, and Nectar3 using only ALM (Auto Level Mode). Then the plan was to render the more leveled vocal to clear out the plugins to get ready to mix.

Without getting into the gory details, in the end, my current setup for vocal leveling is:
1. HP EQ to clear out low frequency noise
2. MAutoVolume (default setting w/ ~30% Look-Ahead) Roughly match the Output level to the Input Level on the meters.
3. MAutoVolume (default setting w/ ~30% Look-Ahead, reduce Range to ~18dB more or less depending on how dynamic I want the vocal) Roughly match the Output level to the Input Level on the meters. I got the idea of using two instances from one of Vojtech's replies in a thread somewhere.
4. Melodyne if the vocal needs tuning. While in there, I'll use the Leveling feature too.
5. Nectar3 ALM only.
6. Render track(s) then mix or just mix because I'm lazy.

I found MAV immediately more transparent sounding than the other levelers (IMHO), then I tried 2 and was sold. I also think N3 ALM is equally as good, and I don't think it writes automation either. I admit to being a BIG Nectar3 fan.

And just so you can hear an example, here are two recent mixes using this vocal leveling chain - NO clip gaining was used to level these vocals, just the chain described above. In fact, I was lazy and don't think I even rendered before I mixed these... Of course more processing was added during mixing too. My vocals almost always go through Nectar 3.

The vocals are two different styles, both used the chain above. The first being more dynamic, the next loud and proud.

https://soundcloud.com/mbd414/kane-guru-v0

https://soundcloud.com/mbd414/good-time ... -miked-mix

HTH

[MeldaProduction]

Correct. The read/write had several problems - first the DAWs often had problems with the amount of automation data. See. automation has always been designed for "human automation" and humans are farily slow creatures . MAutoVolume on the other hand can be extremely fast and even in medium speed there were often solid differences between what was recorded and what it should have been. Then there's a limited accuracy in some DAWs (last time I checked it seemed like Logic was using just 16bit numbers or something...). And there's quite nothing good about it. If you need to automate something, automate output gain for example. After all the curve itself, which would be created by the automation, doesn't have as much information as one might think.

[Burillo]

i've never quite made MAutoVolume work the way i want. one thing that bugged me is the lookahead - it seems to be that it's a "simple" lookahead, rather than "look what's coming next and anticipate, but keep leveling current sound". i.e. it seems to just shift the detector in time, which is counter-productive because i don't want the tails of the sounds getting louder because there's silence right after them. i want the volume to go down before sudden onset in loudness (avoiding the first attack...), but i don't want the same happening in reverse!

i've since found Soundevice Autoformer, and haven't looked back, and use it all the time now. it's much easier to operate and largely gives me perfect results without much tweaking.

[alexis1]

Hi - Steinberg says Cubase 12 has "sample-accurate" automation. Would that solve the problems Mr. Melda has identified with older versions of Cubase?

I would love to see the automation data so I could "automate on top of that" as someone else has described.

Thanks!

[MeldaProduction]

No I'm afraid. The amount of automation would probably make it choke. At least it does for just about any DAW I tested. And editing that afterwards?? No way.

[Hexspa]

Just playing devil's advocate here but maybe the plugin could smooth the automation data prior to writing/passing it on to the DAW.

[MeldaProduction]

It's not about that. It does that.