Pitch mapping mDrummer tom sample to keyboard: Do in MSoundFactory? mDrummer?

[Annabanna]

PROBLEM:

I want to map the (close mic only) rack tom sample from the Rogers rack tom in the 2018 mDrummer library so it plays like any other pitched instrument (chromatic mapping on the keyboard).

I don't see a way to do this in mDrummer, and I don't seem to be able to set up an instrument for it in mSoundFactory either since it looks like the mDrummer multisamples aren't available within the browser when setting up a sampler instrument in mSoundFactory. I assume this means it's looking for .wav samples, but the multisamples aren't available in that form within the mDrummer data folder.




POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:

1) Is there a way to access the sample so mSoundFactory can do it's usual auto pitch detect/mapping on import? (without bouncing the file from mDrummer and then importing the bounced version)

2) Is there a way to map chromatically within mDrummer, using mDrummer module within mSoundFactory, or any alternative approach?



Ideally, I'd like to do this such that it retains the multisample (triggers a random sample within the multisample each time). At this point, I'll settle for any way of chromatically mapping pitched percussion from mDrummer, though.

[Chandlerhimself]

This is difficult/impossible in MDrummer, but you can do it rather easily in MSF. If you're interested I'll do a video about it next week.

[MeldaProduction]

You can use MultiSampler in MSF directly and while it doesn't let you do much, check the triggering panel

[Annabanna]

This is difficult/impossible in MDrummer, but you can do it rather easily in MSF. If you're interested I'll do a video about it next week.

Absolutely!

This is something I've wanted to do for a while, but I keep pushing off since I wasn't sure how to accomplish it. More importantly, I will likely want to do on pretty much every project moving forward with other pitched percussion like agogos, cowbells, open conga tones, etc.

I definitely got the impression that mDrummer just isn't set up to be able to map this way. So long as mSoundFactory can, it's really not an issue, though. This seems to be problematic even with drum modules that can auto-map like Ultrabeat in Logic since the drum modules are set up as separate instances on each key, so changes in processing need to then be propagated across each instance / key vs something like mSF where you change the processing once for the entire instrument.

I had missed that mSF can take advantage of the multisamples from mDrummer data file directly. Sounds like that's ideal if it then preserves the round robin and / or mix/match of mics.

I don't need it to do much else. Just dial in some EQ/ transient and envelope shaping, saturation, etc. All tools readily available in mSF.

If you are able to put together a video, four scenarios come to mind that would seem to cover most situations in which someone would want to play chromatic percussion:

1) Using multisamples already in mDrummer.

2) Using multisamples from another source. At the moment, for instance, I'm looking at the tom libraries from the 3 sigma top shelf collection. I'm assuming they'd need to be properly imported/formatted for mDrummer first, but perhaps not.

3) Using single samples from another source. For the moment because I needed quick results and missed the multi-sample import on mSF, this is what I did as a quick fix by exporting raw single samples from mDrummer, then importing into mSF. Obviously not ideal as you miss out on the multisample features, but quite handy if you just happen to find a good single sample somewhere.

4) Since the topic is chromatic mapping of pitched sounds, it may be helpful to touch on the idea of keyboard splits. The tom sample I'm working with currently, for insance, has a floor tom and a rack tom, so many folks trying to do something similar would likely want a split / region mapping.

[Annabanna]

You can use MultiSampler in MSF directly and while it doesn't let you do much, check the triggering panel

Will look into today. Thx.

[MeldaProduction]

Should be really simple, just setting the pitch increase to 1 semitone. As long as you wouldn't want to do something complex with the samples, it should work fine.

[Annabanna]

Should be really simple, just setting the pitch increase to 1 semitone. As long as you wouldn't want to do something complex with the samples, it should work fine.

Seems straight forward enough now that I see the drum multisample module. I guess I was only looking in the synthesis column since that's what I was used to.

Semitone tuning and all works great, and it's fantastic to be able to retain multisample control.

The only thing I seem to be missing at the moment is the pitch detection... like I would have on import or in the advanced tab on sampler module. Is this built in somewhere?

If not, what's the fastest way to achieve a reliable basis for the pitch? I've used mTuner and many others for this sort of things many times, and it's a real pain for short percussive sounds. For instance, even with the longest stablization time and one hit per measure, this tom gives a different readout each measure, and nothing I can do brings it back to a perfectly aligned reading. Perhaps part of that is just the multisample where each hit is different, but it underscores that auto detection is probably even more needed on multisamples since it is so difficult manually.

If not built in for this module, Is there some way of using an auto-pitch detection somewhere else and copying the offset to the pitch shift knob then storing it with the instrument? Something else?

[MeldaProduction]

I'm afraid no automatic tuning is there and honestly I don't know if that is even possible. Most drums are resonating on multiple frequencies and perceived pitch is often kinda different for each listener... I'd just change it manually.

[Annabanna]

I'm afraid no automatic tuning is there and honestly I don't know if that is even possible. Most drums are resonating on multiple frequencies and perceived pitch is often kinda different for each listener... I'd just change it manually.

Actually, the reason I was asking is because the auto-detection built into the sampler module is remarkably accurate and super easy to use.

I've used it thousands of times. I only wish there was a way on the sampler module to enable auto detection when browsing since the advanced tab auto closes, and sifting through a thousand drum samples then requires multiple extra button presses for each one. Would be MUCH quicker if there was an option to auto-enable pitch detection for each new sound auditioned.

It doesn't always work, of course, but it does more often than not at a HUGE time savings... and when it doesn't, I can still tune manually anyway, so nothing is lost. It often sounds more accurate than what I can get by looking at numbers bouncing all over the place even at the longest stablilization.

It's just not practical to do any of this manually when you're auditioning sounds. It's the difference between going through a folder of potential sounds in 5 minutes vs 5 hours (or likely more).

[Annabanna]

I'm afraid no automatic tuning is there and honestly I don't know if that is even possible. Most drums are resonating on multiple frequencies and perceived pitch is often kinda different for each listener... I'd just change it manually.

Was thinking about this statement again today on hour 2 of auditioning drum samples with most of the time taken up by tuning, and thought to put it this way:

If it's useful on ANYTHING, then it's at least potentially useful on EVERYTHING.

In other words, most people in most circumstances who would want pitch detection/correction on by default on input would also want it on by default when auditioning sounds. Without that even a simple A/B of only two sounds in a folder becomes time consuming and laden with a series of extra steps. Re-opening the advanced tab, manually initiating a pitch detection, then in the few seconds that have passed, you'd need to store one in tab A, then another in tab B to be able to then finally do a one button in context as the song plays.

I can't think of any circumstance when auditioning sounds where the goal is to do anything other than a single press of a button to hear one sound vs the other in context... which means properly pitched if it's a pitched sample.

You mentioned something somewhere else about auditioning sounds randomly, and I just wanted to point out that a lot of people do not work that way. With hundreds of thousands of samples painstakingly archived in carefully named subfolders, the last thing I would want to do is randomly pull up unrelated sounds. I always have a pretty clear idea what I want, want to hear only sounds in that subfolder, and want to do so in alphabetical order so it's clear whether or not I've already heard everything in the folder. Anything else is just more time to accomplish less.

[MeldaProduction]

I don't know, honestly you are the only one who asks for it . But anyways I'll add it to todo list for investigation.

[Annabanna]

I don't know, honestly you are the only one who asks for it . But anyways I'll add it to todo list for investigation.

If and when that moment comes, just ask yourself this simple question:

If someone wants pitch detection auto-enabled when loading a new sample... then why would they only want it if they take extra time to load each sample manually vs loading the same samples via the previous/next buttons?

Even if there is a case where that's true, it would seem to be the exception, and there would be no downside to the option to enable it whereas the upside is avoiding potentially hours of wasted time when browsing large sample libraries.

Could be even simpler, though. Users already have the option to disable auto-detection on import, so if it just worked in the more intuitive sense that it applies to all new sample loads, anyone who did have the rare case of not wanting it to apply when navigating via previous/next could just disable the existing feature. That way all cases are covered, and there's not even any extra buttons or options to deal with. Zero change to the UI, and nothing breaks.