KVR Audio

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:35 am

ancient7 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 8:36 am Photoshop CS2 is free!

No, it isn't. It never was and never will be.

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 5:02 pm

OP didn't specify Mac or Windows. I see this thread is a bit old so probably moot, but I'll leave this here anyway. On Mac I have been using Flying Meat's Acorn for years and it has been constantly updated and improved. My GO TO tool for simple image tasks. I can be edited and done in the time it takes to load up Photoshop.

My second choice is a licensed standalone copy of Photoshop CS 6 (last version before the creative cloud), and it still works just swimmingly for more complex tasks like the healing tool. You have to jump through hoops to get it installed (if I recall correctly, license offline because online challenge-response fails). Afaik, you can still transfer licenses of older standalone Adobe products, so I'd recommend looking for a used license of CS 6 if you want to avoid the rent seeking but still have a stable version of Photoshop.

Spring Goose · Post by **Spring Goose** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:29 pm

kidslow wrote: ↑Sun Dec 18, 2022 5:02 pm OP didn't specify Mac or Windows. I see this thread is a bit old so probably moot, but I'll leave this here anyway. On Mac I have been using Flying Meat's Acorn for years and it has been constantly updated and improved. My GO TO tool for simple image tasks. I can be edited and done in the time it takes to load up Photoshop.

My second choice is a licensed standalone copy of Photoshop CS 6 (last version before the creative cloud), and it still works just swimmingly for more complex tasks like the healing tool. You have to jump through hoops to get it installed (if I recall correctly, license offline because online challenge-response fails). Afaik, you can still transfer licenses of older standalone Adobe products, so I'd recommend looking for a used license of CS 6 if you want to avoid the rent seeking but still have a stable version of Photoshop.

I'm Windows, and yeah i bought Affinity ages ago!

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Sun Dec 18, 2022 6:55 pm

Yeah I read through and found that, but maybe someone else now or in the future will benefit from my notes. I just peeked on Ebay and used Photoshop CS6 licenses still go for $200 to $600.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:35 am

Last time I tried to get my CS6 working, Adobe decided it was a pirate copy and wouldn't authorise it, even after I sent them photos of the box it came in and the installation DVDs. I had been using it without any problems for years but they didn't give a shit. They can go f**k 'emselves as far as I'm concerned. Their tools are rubbish anyway.

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:42 am

Another vote for Affinity Designer and Affinity Photo - All have just been upgraded to V2 as well.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:52 am

It doesn't look like Serif are offering any upgrade pricing for existing V1 customers.

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:19 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 1:35 am Their tools are rubbish anyway.

You had me in your corner up to there "sour grapes" BONES. This is simply not true, and you know it. I mean Audition kind of sucks, but Premiere is professional caliber and Photoshop & Illustrator are industry leading.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:23 pm

It's completely true. Photoshop uses 25 year old colour algorithms that haven't been updated since I started using it in 1997. The workflow in Photoshop is an absolute goat-f**k, the most convoluted way possible to do non-destructive editing. Compare how well Magic Eraser in a Pixel phone works with how shithouse Content-Aware Fill is in Photoshop. It's a joke.

Photoshop and Illustrator may be Industry Standard, but there is no measure by which they lead anything. Seriously, go and download Xara Designer Pro +, spend a couple of hours with the 14 day trial and tell me it isn't faster, more efficient and generally better in every way than anything Adobe has to offer. Or download and install Combustion, a product that was discontinued 12 years ago, and see how superior its colour correction tools are to what we get in Photoshop/Premiere Pro/After Effects. While you're there, you can see how much better it is than After Effects at just about everything.

_leras · Post by **_leras** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:38 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:52 am It doesn't look like Serif are offering any upgrade pricing for existing V1 customers.

40% off until end of Jan.

but, Yes, no extra discount for existing V1 customers... how that feels probably depends on how long you owned V1. (not very long for me.... but I think in all good value so I updated)

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:43 pm

There was quite a bit of discussion on their forums, about both the lack of upgrade options, and the price raises over the years.

Anyway, I just don't feel like buying the Affinity v2 products. No real groundbreaking changes, and I simply don't use the apps enough to justify buying the v2's.

I edited some pictures this afternoon, and doing so in PS Elements was just much faster than anything I ever did in the Affinity apps, so I just do that, and take a look every now and then into the Affinity apps.

I like Designer though, but, I have no idea how competing apps are, the only vector app I ever used was Inkscpae, and I quickly closed it again, because I had no idea what I'm doing in it... And, frankly, just like so many open source applications, I found the UI to be piss poor.

pekbro · Post by **pekbro** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:43 pm

Wow Combustion, haven't used or thought about that in years. Too bad they got bought by Autodesk, they killed so many great graphics programs. Not sure I would try to use it today though. The other one I miss was Commotion from Pinnacle.

*Regarding Adobe's color computations, just how much do you think you can do with RGB tripples and vector algebra. There are no more magic algos waiting to be discovered very probably. CMYK
is the same, vec4 instead of vec3, that's all it boils down to really.

kidslow · Post by **kidslow** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 7:05 pm

Nice moving the goalposts BONES, from rubbish to "no measure by which they lead anything". They lead by marketshare and legacy installed base, which are both envious positions.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Dec 19, 2022 11:44 pm

I was just responding to your suggestion that it as an "industry leader". It's anything but. Honestly, except for one tool, I'd be perfectly happy with Photoshop v5, from the 1990s. Or maybe v7, which is when they introduced the Healing brush, I think. That's how little it has progressed in the last 20 years.

_leras wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:38 pm40% off until end of Jan. but, Yes, no extra discount for existing V1 customers... how that feels probably depends on how long you owned V1. (not very long for me.... but I think in all good value so I updated)

I bought them years ago (5, maybe longer) and I am pretty sure I only paid $59 each for v1. But I'm no great fan so they need to make me a better upgrade offer than more than I paid for v1. I don't have CC installed any more, so I recently installed Affinity Photo for quick edits but I still don't like it much.

pekbro wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:43 pm Wow Combustion, haven't used or thought about that in years. Too bad they got bought by Autodesk, they killed so many great graphics programs.

Discreet/Autodesk created Combustion, based on two separate products they had acquired. Paint and Effect were good but Combustion took things to a completely new level. The problem was that they never understood what they had. To them it was just candy they could give to customers to keep them happy. If they had taken it more seriously, they could have owned the After Effects market. In fact, Adobe took Combustion far more seriously than Autodesk ever did. When Combustion was around, AfterFX got a lot of love from Adobe. It got a whole lot better because they saw Combustion as a serious threat. Once Autodesk EOL'd it, they went back to doing nothing with AfterFX.

Not sure I would try to use it today though.

It is still the first application I install on any new PC. It's really good because it was designed to run on much, much slower computers so it's an absolute speed demon. The only thing that stops me using it more is its lack of support for a lot of modern formats and codecs. You can't even use mp4s in it. But for colour correcting stills and movies, it remains my go-to.

*Regarding Adobe's color computations, just how much do you think you can do with RGB tripples and vector algebra. There are no more magic algos waiting to be discovered very probably. CMYK
is the same, vec4 instead of vec3, that's all it boils down to really.

Have a play with the Color Warper in Combustion and you will have some understanding. Even the standard CC tool in Combustion runs rings around anything in Photoshop. The tools in Photoshop are actually worse than they were in V3. There are several tools they have deprecated over the years that I used to use a lot. The latest victim is their "Render" tools. The lighting tool was great but they somehow managed to break it. It's still there but they warn you that it doesn't work properly anymore, which seems like incredible laziness to me. If they know it's broken, why the f**k don't they fix it!?!

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:04 am

BONES wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 3:52 am It doesn't look like Serif are offering any upgrade pricing for existing V1 customers.

No they don't... I basically rebought the whole sweet while it was on the intro offer. But you save so much in the long run. The new tools are great so it's worth it imo.

Plus f**k adobe scum!

Making music artwork. Alternatives to Adobe?