FR: different Live Sync Modes for scene playback and sequence recording

[Hermu]

for sequence live recording during scene playback i have to select "Composer" to get a synchron live recording result, but for continues playback start i want to have selected "Start" and 1 Bar.
it would be easier if this could selected in Live Sync Mode for Recording and Playback, or Scene sequence recording will start always in "Composer" Live Sync Mode if a Scene is in playback mode.

[mutools]

Why would you need that? Please explain it from your musical workflow pov, thus pls elaborate on what you want to do musically.

[Hermu]

Why would you need that? Please explain it from your musical workflow pov, thus pls elaborate on what you want to do musically.

i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing.
for example:
first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.
now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.
for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".

[mutools]

i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing. for example: first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.

That sure is an obvious and supported use case. Many users will often play this way.
I just doublechecked that workflow and it works fine as expected here.

now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.

I can't repeat this. Well, to be more precise: If i record my first note a bit too early and it gets quantized to the last 16th of the previous bar, in that case there indeed is that extra first bar, but that's logical as MuLab cannot know that first note was a mistake. I'll have to correct that mistake myself by editing.

for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".

Please note that sync mode "Composer" means that the Composer's sync mode is used. The composer's sync mode is defined via Composer options (options at the right of transport) -> Live Sync Mode. In fact you have the exact same choices there as for Part Sync Mode, Scene Sync Mode and Live Matrix Sync Mode. It's all about the same but with a hierarchical structure:
If Part Sync Mode is set to Scene then Scene Sync Mode is used.
If Scene Sync Mode is set to Live Matrix then Live Matrix Sync Mode is used.
If Live Matrix Sync Mode is set to Composer then Composer Sync Mode is used.

Does this clarify things?

[Hermu]

i want to record new sequences for a scene, while sequences which was recorded before are now playing. for example: first i have to record a drum sequence, after recorded drum sequence was finished and playing , now i want to record a bass sequence for this scene and so on.

That sure is an obvious and supported use case. Many users will often play this way.
I just doublechecked that workflow and it works fine as expected here.

now, if i want to do that i have to change Live Sync Mode to "Composer" to get a synchron recording result, if i do not change it, recording creates always a empty bar before recording start, although recording was started directly after record button was pressed.

I can't repeat this. Well, to be more precise: If i record my first note a bit too early and it gets quantized to the last 16th of the previous bar, in that case there indeed is that extra first bar, but that's logical as MuLab cannot know that first note was a mistake. I'll have to correct that mistake myself by editing.

for finsihed scenes playback i prefer "Start" with "1 Bar" mode to switch to another scene.
Now i have always to change it for scenes playback from "Composer" to "Start".

Please note that sync mode "Composer" means that the Composer's sync mode is used. The composer's sync mode is defined via Composer options (options at the right of transport) -> Live Sync Mode. In fact you have the exact same choices there as for Part Sync Mode, Scene Sync Mode and Live Matrix Sync Mode. It's all about the same but with a hierarchical structure:
If Part Sync Mode is set to Scene then Scene Sync Mode is used.
If Scene Sync Mode is set to Live Matrix then Live Matrix Sync Mode is used.
If Live Matrix Sync Mode is set to Composer then Composer Sync Mode is used.

Does this clarify things?

thanks for your detailed answer and you´re right, different Live Sync modes can not solve unsynchron live recording results.
yes, it´s hard to press record and hit the first note exactly in the same time, but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.

[mutools]

yes, it´s hard to press record and hit the first note exactly in the same time,

You can also press record and wait a loop and only record then. That will give the same result.

but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.

Maybe you played just a little bit too early but with Auto Quantize on it shifted to a previous grid?
Could that have been the cause?

[Hermu]

yes, it´s hard to press record and hit the first note exactly in the same time,

You can also press record and wait a loop and only record then. That will give the same result.

but recording was played in time with playback, only the recording result is out of time.
but if recording would only record as it is would fix this issue.

Maybe you played just a little bit too early but with Auto Quantize on it shifted to a previous grid?
Could that have been the cause?

no, i don´t use Auto Quantize.
i have this problem only by recording in Live Play Matrix, most of my recording starts always one beat shifted to right and this is a long time before my recording playback will start.
time line recording during scene playback works nearly perfect and than i have to copy this sequence to live play matrix ...

[mutools]

What's the samplerate and output latency of the audio engine?
You can find these values by right-click on the cpu meter -> Audio Engine Stats.

[Hermu]

now i have found the reason for the delayed recording issue.
the problem is found in the Live Sync settings.
as i wrote in my first post, i want to set up "Start" und "1 Bar" for Playback, but this setting has also influence to recording result.
if Live Sync "Start" and "Instant" was set, recording result starts on beginning.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Beat" was set, recording result starts after 1 Beat and so on.
if Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar" was set, recording result starts after 1 Bar and so on.

workaround for me:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"

[mutools]

The sync mode indeed plays a roll in defining the loop length for the new recording: The loop start is quantized to the previous sync grid, the loop end to the next sync grid. Now if you have set the recording grid to off thus no event quantization at all, and your first event is just before the grid then the loop start for the new sequence will be rounded to the previous sync grid and hence you'll get some empty space before your first event. If you don't want that try using a quantization grid for the recorded events.

[Hermu]

for me, live recording should be easy logical to understand and practice, but it´s not.
it´s not logical for me to understand, why a playback synchronisation for switching to another scene, should also create a recording delay in the same unswitched scene, because these are two different things. in ableton live i never had a problem with live recordings and it´s logical and easy to use.
anyway, i want to record only to actual playing scene and the workaround for me in MuLab 9:
recording - set Live Sync "Start" and "Instant"
playback - set Live Sync "Start" and "1 Bar"

[mutools]

To me this sounds like you do want the very first event(s) to be quantized anyway so to avoid the empty time due to rounding to the sync length. That makes sense, musically. In the next M9.0.34 update when recording events into the Live Matrix and there is no recording quantization then if the very first recorded event(s) are just before a beat (within 1/32th of the next beat) then these events are quantized to that next beat anyway. That will avoid the complication you're encountering and i'm confident this also makes musical sense to 99% of the users.

[Hermu]

yes, this sounds much better.

[Hermu]

i give up, because with MuLab 9.0.34 it`s the same as before.

[mutools]

It sounded like you agreed on the practical solution, and that solution is implemented in M9.0.34.

So i'd appreciate if you would elaborate on what's still not ok for you.