Global problem with all MIDI Synthesizers

[Yulian]

Hello! I have a problem that messes me up with any synth, be it the standard 4OSC, or third party plugins like Vital and others.
The fact is that the sounds at the output of the synthesizer, which should be exactly the same, are different in waveform, phase and volume. One beat may sound weak, another medium, and a third strong.

For example, I do a primitive kick with 4OSC. I create a step-clip with one row and loop four C1 notes. I have one Sine oscillator. I set attack, sustain and release to zero, leaving only about 50ms decay. On the Global tab, I set the mode to "Mono" and set the "Voices" control to 1. Any LFO-type automation, or any modulation, is all disabled. I expect to get a primitive series of identical pulses. But here's how it looks and sounds in reality - Google Drive. Here's a screenshot of the kick's waveform and a wav file of the kick's sound.

I think maybe this problem is not in the Tracktion Waveform program, but in my system sound drivers, maybe even in the system clock.

I write in this forum because I only use Waveform Free, I really like this DAW, and I want to set up everything that is necessary for stable work in this program!

I have an old computer on Win7 Max: AMD Athlon(tm) II X3 450 3.2 GHz,
10GB RAM DDR3,
AMD Radeon HD6670.
Audio drivers:
AMD HD Audio Device
and Realtek HD Audio

If I have not described enough data for diagnosis - please write about it and I will add the missing information in the comments or in the Google Drive folder.

If you have come across something like this and found a solution, or if you have any thoughts on what is the cause of such a problem - write about it, please!
Thank you very much for your attention!

[Watchful]

It's possible your step clip "randomization" is on. I don't use step clips, so can't provide reliable information on how to correct this, but you're describing a problem that sounds very similar to one I spotted 2 or 3 weeks ago.

[Yulian]

It's possible your step clip "randomization" is on.

Unfortunately, with a regular pure MIDI Clip it works just the same... How does it manifest itself in you and have you tried to do something to fix it?

[Watchful]

I don't use step clips--just audio and MIDI clips, so I can't provide much more information. I have not encountered this problem. But someone else here should be able to provide guidance!

[Yulian]

I have not encountered this problem. But someone else here should be able to provide guidance!

Ok, I get it. Just i meant, tell me about the problem, that you spotted 2-3 weeks ago::

but you're describing a problem that sounds very similar to one I spotted 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Perhaps this may be related to my problem and I could check it too.

[Watchful]

A user posted a problem that his drum velocities were playing all differently in a step clip. He had the randomization feature active. Turning off randomization solved his issue.

I don't think that's what is happening here, for you.

[Yulian]

I don't think that's what is happening here, for you.

Yes, this seems to be a slightly different case. I don't have a problem with the timing of the beats, they play on time. But I will keep it in mind if I suddenly encounter such a situation, with a randomizer. Thanks to!)

[pough]

If you have a simple edit that has the problem (eg. just the 4OSC kicks) then you could save out an Archive and share it so we can load it and see if our renders are different.

You can try to change the audio device settings for a better result. (Also you can show us your settings in case we can spot something strange.)

You can try getting ASIO4ALL and see if that works better.

[Yulian]

You can try to change the audio device settings for a better result.
You can try getting ASIO4ALL and see if that works better.

Yes, I have tried changing the audio device to both ASIO4ALL and DirectSound. But, unfortunately, it also did not give a positive result for my situation ...

If you have a simple edit that has the problem (eg. just the 4OSC kicks) then you could save out an Archive and share it (Also you can show us your settings in case we can spot something strange.)

Here is a test project archive, it contains two tracks with the same midi part, but as midi and step clips, to check if the clip type affects the problem (in my case it does not). The WaveObserver analyzer is installed on the master bus. I also added screenshots of my settings.
It seemed to me that the checkboxes from the "Settings > Advanced > MIDI" section can most affect my situation. I turned them on and off, but that didn't help either.
I hope that I just made a mistake somewhere in the settings and this can be easily corrected)
Waveform Free Version 12.1.3
WaveObserver Version 1.0.5.0

so we can load it and see if our renders are different.

I think even if you have the same situation, our renders will be different. Each of my new renders is not like the previous one. It looks like there is some separate extraneous process that affects the parameters of the blows, because of which they are constantly changing.

[dysjoint]

I have noticed this too occasionally . I can hear it and sometimes observe it in the rendered wav file. Need to try and narrow it down and replicate it before I could even start to contribute here though.

[pough]

Just to be clear, this is happening with every synth with every type of sound? Or every synth with a truncated sine wave? Or something else I can't guess at?

Could it be that with such a short chunk of a long wave you're getting a different chunk each time? I made a similar patch using Vital and it seemed to do the same thing (random loudness) in FL Studio and Reaper.

By the way, how did you get WaveObserver to work? That plugin crashed WF harder than... a really hard thing.

[Yulian]

Just to be clear, this is happening with every synth with every type of sound? Or every synth with a truncated sine wave? Or something else I can't guess at?

Apparently, this happens with any signal at the output of synthesizers. It's like there's some kind of invisible independent modulation wave that all synth sounds are superimposed on and that's the reason why each signal has a different phase response. It's just that on short pulses it is much more noticeable in contrast to long signals; over short segments, phase differences cause clear differences in loudness.

By the way, how did you get WaveObserver to work? That plugin crashed WF harder than... a really hard thing.

On Win7 I had no problems with this plugin, surprisingly. But on Win10 I have seen big GUI issues. The ”Enabe DPI Answers” feature helped me solve this problem, which can be enabled for each plugin in its configurations. After enabling it, close the plugin window and open it again - after that the interface should display correctly.

I made a similar patch using Vital and it seemed to do the same thing (random loudness) in FL Studio and Reaper.

This is a very unexpected result... I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube, where users on different DAWs and synths created different drum sounds, they got stable short signals... Weird

[pough]

On Win7 I had no problems with this plugin, surprisingly. But on Win10 I have seen big GUI issues. The ”Enabe DPI Answers” feature helped me solve this problem, which can be enabled for each plugin in its configurations. After enabling it, close the plugin window and open it again - after that the interface should display correctly.

It wasn't a display issue for me. WF poofed out of existence. When I sandboxed it, it crashed the sandbox but it never even tried to display.

This is a very unexpected result... I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube, where users on different DAWs and synths created different drum sounds, they got stable short signals... Weird

If you zoom in on the waveform you can see that it starts at different points in the sine wave. I don't think these synths are triggering a waveform start with each note played. I'm not really a synth guy, though, so I don't really know what's going on.

[Yulian]

It wasn't a display issue for me. WF poofed out of existence. When I sandboxed it, it crashed the sandbox but it never even tried to display.

Maybe this can be fixed by disabling sandboxing in the menu 'Settings > Plugins > 'Enable plugin sandboxing'. I've been using WF for quite some time now without this feature, because I've had some similar issues as well.

If you zoom in on the waveform you can see that it starts at different points in the sine wave. I don't think these synths are triggering a waveform start with each note played. I'm not really a synth guy, though, so I don't really know what's going on.

Yes this is true. It seems that such an idea, how to create any one shot in any synthesizer, requires some preparation and fundamental knowledge of the work of synthesizers)
Thank you for the tests that you have done in WF and other DAWs!) This showed me that the problem is not in my computer , but this is some kind of global question that has yet to be answered!)

[pough]

I think if you really want to use that sound you need to export a bunch of them (as you have already done), choose the one you like best, and then play it back as a sample.