Program change in MIDI clip - can it control AmpliTube pre-set?

[Dark Lane]

Hi Guys

I've got a MIDI guitar track in W11.5 using a guitar VI (RealGuitar) and amp sim (AmpliTube 5 CS) as plug-ins. I've found a preset I want to use for the track apart from a guitar solo (which is a separate clip) where I want to use a different AmpliTube preset.

AmpliTube 5 appears to allow the DAW to change preset as there are a list of Program Change codes in the Settings section. And Waveform has an Insert Program Change option in the control panel, when a clip is selected. So far so good.

The first problem is that the list of patches displayed in Waveform appears to be a generic MIDI list and doesn't match the list in Amplitube (it's the same list in all banks). So how do I point the Program Change option at the list of patches/presets in AmpliTube?

(First time I've tried to do this so may well be user error rather than a limitation in Waveform but lack of any support for this topic in the manual or online means I'm asking you guys for some education, I'm afraid)

My workaround would be to create a copy of the track, delete everything except the solo and amend the AmpliTube plugin as required. But that would be boring wouldn't it

Cheers

[Watchful]

Dark Lane,

A program change might do it--it depends on what AmpliTube considers a program change--but consider using automation to do this, as the loaded preset is usually a parameter that automation can control.

If you use a program change, Waveform will, like any DAW, just send a MIDI program change, which may not work with a non-synth plugin.

But be careful in this approach with what you've described. Switching presets on an amp sim can be unnatural in real time: your previous effects are cut off hard, and it may take your sim a split-second to process the incoming sounds. Or, worse, you can get a BANG of noise as the preset changes. The plug in will act like real hardware--if you ripped out your quarter-inch jack from one stomp box set and jammed it into a different one.

Alternatively, you might consider putting Real on one track with a pair of sends--one to one amp sim, one to another on different tracks. Bring one up while dropping the other.

I've had good luck with Waveforms' A/B Switch in a rack, sending from one sim to another. You might try that, but ultimately what I do the most: different guitar tracks with different effects/sims. Then it's easy to blend from one to the other and the overhead isn't too much.

[jabe]

You should just be able to copy or cut the guitar solo and paste that into a new track without copying the entire track and deleting all but the solo. This might also get you around problems as described by Watchful.

[Dark Lane]

Dark Lane,

A program change might do it--it depends on what AmpliTube considers a program change--but consider using automation to do this, as the loaded preset is usually a parameter that automation can control.

DL - I did try that option but the automation in AmpliTube is too detailed for this task. It works at individual parameter level for each stomp box, amp, cab and mic which is great for micro changes but not for a patch/preset change

If you use a program change, Waveform will, like any DAW, just send a MIDI program change, which may not work with a non-synth plugin.

DL- Yes, I'm not sure how it can work when there is another plug-in (the guitar VI) between the MIDI clip and Amplitube! Maybe wrapping in a rack is the answer but I'll need to do some more research

But be careful in this approach with what you've described. Switching presets on an amp sim can be unnatural in real time: your previous effects are cut off hard, and it may take your sim a split-second to process the incoming sounds. Or, worse, you can get a BANG of noise as the preset changes. The plug in will act like real hardware--if you ripped out your quarter-inch jack from one stomp box set and jammed it into a different one.

DL - Very good point. I'm hoping that as it's a 'clean break' at the end of an eight bar phrase when the guitar isn't playing, I'll get away with it but it'll be interesting to hear.

Alternatively, you might consider putting Real on one track with a pair of sends--one to one amp sim, one to another on different tracks. Bring one up while dropping the other.

DL - Yes, I'll try this option as well

I've had good luck with Waveforms' A/B Switch in a rack, sending from one sim to another. You might try that, but ultimately what I do the most: different guitar tracks with different effects/sims. Then it's easy to blend from one to the other and the overhead isn't too much.

Thanks, for your suggestions and help, Watchful. I'm intrigued to see if I can figure it out now, even just as a technical exercise so I'll spend some more time investigating

[Dark Lane]

You should just be able to copy or cut the guitar solo and paste that into a new track without copying the entire track and deleting all but the solo. This might also get you around problems as described by Watchful.

Thanks Jabe, if I get nowhere with the program change I'll come back to this approach

[Dark Lane]

Well, after a bit of YouTube searching I found a (not very elegant) way of doing this:
- Add guitar VI only to MIDI track
- Render to new audio clip and add to new track
- Add Amplitube plugin to new audio track
- Create separate MIDI track and send output to new audio track
- Add program change commands as required to MIDI track

The problem was that with two plugins on the original MIDI track, the program change seemed to affect the first plugin only (as far as I can make out). Splitting it ito two tracks avoided the problem. And when it plays back the new dummy MIDI track controls the program change to different Amplitube patches on the audio track.

(The only reason for the dummy MIDI track is that audio clips don't support program change messages. According to one video I saw other DAW's do support this (Reaper) which seems unusual as it's a MIDI feature but maybe I'm missing something?)

The workaround of a separate MIDI track for the chorus only will probably be simpler so I won't use this in practice but interesting to get it working anyway.

[Watchful]

That is interesting and something I haven't personally messed with.

Again, after trying various methods, the best way I found (and use 100% of the time) is to create separate tracks with Real and sims for each. That way, I can more comfortably balance audio levels, play with overall reverbs, blend guitar parts for a bigger sound, and so on.

One thing I can now do with Real 6 products: with their built-in simulators, I can now set one type of reverb internally to what I like, but using a separate pedal/amp/cab sim, create a second, quieter effect on top of it for an even bigger sound.

Not as cool as dummy MIDI tracks, but it works with a high degree of predictable control. Which I like.