Why does ACE sound so much better than Bazille?

[SamDi]

I wanted ask this question since a long time.
I just have them open next to each other and still don't get it:

Why does the cheaper synth sound so much better than the more expensive on? It are not just the stock presets, but also the third party presets and everything. ACE sounds just stunning without any effort. Bazille is missing the shimmmer and the shine, and to be honest, the sound is kind of underwhelming to me for all presets, there is just no one, where I say - Wow!

I know that Bazille is not the bigger brother of ACE, because they are different approaches (is it analog modeling vs. digital? I dunno what's the difference). But even then I don't understand, why was it done like that. If Bazille had the same sound quality like ACE, it would be the absolute beast. Why was this odd decision made, to make the bigger synth sound worse?

What do you think?

[experimental.crow]

I wanted ask this question since a long time.
I just have them open next to each other and still don't get it:

Why does the cheaper synth sound so much better than the more expensive on? It are not just the stock presets, but also the third party presets and everything. ACE sounds just stunning without any effort. Bazille is missing the shimmmer and the shine, and to be honest, the sound is kind of underwhelming to me for all presets, there is just no one, where I say - Wow!

I know that Bazille is not the bigger brother of ACE, because they are different approaches (is it analog modeling vs. digital? I dunno what's the difference). But even then I don't understand, why was it done like that. If Bazille had the same sound quality like ACE, it would be the absolute beast. Why was this odd decision made, to make the bigger synth sound worse?

What do you think?

i think that you have an opinion ...
i don't share it ...

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

As you said, Bazille is not the big-brother of ACE. ACE is a virtual analog semi-modular. Bazille uses digital oscillators that are geared towards Phase Distortion and FM sounds. They're meant to sound different because they weren't trying to make variations of the same product. You just prefer the sound of ACE over Bazille. Quite a few people here will feel very differently. There doesn't need to be any one true opinion on either. You can prefer one over the other and someone else will have the opposite opinion. The good news is: you don't have to buy Bazille if you don't like it and ACE is less expensive!

[Dirtgrain]

This thread might have some muster if you posted some sounds for comparison.

[pdxindy]

What do you think?

I think Bazille sounds amazing! Bazille is my favorite synth ever!

ACE is easier because it has normalized wiring. ACE is also more suited to classic analog synth sounds... like PWM and hard and soft sync. ACE is a fantastic synth... but Bazille is better

[SamDi]

... Quite a few people here will feel very differently. There doesn't need to be any one true opinion on either. You can prefer one over the other and someone else will have the opposite opinion. The good news is: you don't have to buy Bazille if you don't like it and ACE is less expensive!

Hm OK, then I guess, I need to recognize, that it's just a subjective thing then. Too late, I bought Bazille a long time ago

This thread might have some muster if you posted some sounds for comparison.

This would be interesting for sure, but I fear, it would take too much time for too few new insights for anybody.
(but I made just some minutes ago a similar (very simple) patch for both, and indeed. There is no winner for this.

I think Bazille sounds amazing! Bazille is my favorite synth ever!

ACE is easier because it has normalized wiring. ACE is also more suited to classic analog synth sounds... like PWM and hard and soft sync. ACE is a fantastic synth... but Bazille is better

It may sound odd, but my problem with both is, that they are limiting me (althogh they are modular), with Pigments or Phase Plant I come more far in fewer time. So I use them pretty seldom TBH. But who knows, maybe there will come the time, where I do more with them...

[pdxindy]

I think Bazille sounds amazing! Bazille is my favorite synth ever!

ACE is easier because it has normalized wiring. ACE is also more suited to classic analog synth sounds... like PWM and hard and soft sync. ACE is a fantastic synth... but Bazille is better

It may sound odd, but my problem with both is, that they are limiting me (althogh they are modular), with Pigments or Phase Plant I come more far in fewer time. So I use them pretty seldom TBH. But who knows, maybe there will come the time, where I do more with them...

There is definitely a learning curve for modular.

I have Pigments. Well designed synth, but I don't use it much cause I find the sound on the bland side and it uses a lot of cpu. I don't have Phase Plant cause the sound is only okay to me and it does too much. I like simpler more characterful synths.

To my ears, both ACE and Bazille have better sound quality than either of the P's and they have more character. I use them both constantly. I am especially using ACE more recently because there is now a CLAP version of ACE and I can use Bitwig's vast modulation system per voice with ACE.

[SamDi]

I think Bazille sounds amazing! Bazille is my favorite synth ever!

ACE is easier because it has normalized wiring. ACE is also more suited to classic analog synth sounds... like PWM and hard and soft sync. ACE is a fantastic synth... but Bazille is better

It may sound odd, but my problem with both is, that they are limiting me (althogh they are modular), with Pigments or Phase Plant I come more far in fewer time. So I use them pretty seldom TBH. But who knows, maybe there will come the time, where I do more with them...

There is definitely a learning curve for modular.

I have Pigments. Well designed synth, but I don't use it much cause I find the sound on the bland side and it uses a lot of cpu. I don't have Phase Plant cause the sound is only okay to me and it does too much. I like simpler more characterful synths.

To my ears, both ACE and Bazille have better sound quality than either of the P's and they have more character. I use them both constantly. I am especially using ACE more recently because there is now a CLAP version of ACE and I can use Bitwig's vast modulation system per voice with ACE.

You are not (completely) wrong. Phase Plant doesn't really shine on bread & butter sounds, because the modules are too simple/digital, so for easy patches you get better results with, as you say it simpler & charakterful sounding synths. But it shines, when you start to make complex patches (with FM, AM, etc.) . For all this Neurofunk, Dubstepp, Bass Music crazyness, there is no better (IMO).

For Pigments, I know, that many find, it sounds bland, which I do not get at all. My explantation is, that people just rate it because of the stock patches or maybe they expect the OSCs, filters to be a good analog emulation (as it pretends to be?) but it isn't actually. But after applying my standard Fx, as I do on every patch of each synth (some combination of saturation, EQ, compressor) it sounds absolutely stunning.

[pdxindy]

You are not (completely) wrong. Phase Plant doesn't really shine on bread & butter sounds, because the modules are too simple/digital, so for easy patches you get better results with, as you say it simpler & charakterful sounding synths. But it shines, when you start to make complex patches (with FM, AM, etc.) . For all this Neurofunk, Dubstepp, Bass Music crazyness, there is no better (IMO).

For Pigments, I know, that many find, it sounds bland, which I do not get at all. My explantation is, that people just rate it because of the stock patches or maybe they expect the OSCs, filters to be a good analog emulation (as it pretends to be?) but it isn't actually. But after applying my standard Fx, as I do on every patch of each synth (some combination of saturation, EQ, compressor) it sounds absolutely stunning.

That's why it is good there are different synths for different people.

I'm so looking forward to the CLAP version of Bazille!

[Echoes in the Attic]

I much prefer the sound of Bazille over ACE!

[FakeNatty]

Bazille is meant to be a cross-oscillator modulation device. It's unapologetically digital and technical for the sake of all the audio-rate modulations you can do.

Ace is meant to be a simple analog modular emulation. It's meant to give you that analog texture in its sounds along with some basic audio-rate modulations you see in modular hardware.

So both share commonalities in their audio-rate modulation capabilities, but they are not designed with the same philosophy in mind.

I'm still selling my Ace for $48. Bazille has already been sold.

[nilhartman]

Bazille has something very tangible and real to its sound, my very favorite synth. If patched to impersonate an analogue synth, it can do it effortlessly IMO.
I can easily picture myself doing everything (drums included) with Bazille, Hive and Z3 (once it’s out obviously).
I never gelled with ACE but I should give it another shot. Thanks for this reminder of a topic.

[pdxindy]

I never gelled with ACE but I should give it another shot. Thanks for this reminder of a topic.

ACE has good sounding soft-sync... not many synths have it. Between the RingMod, SoftSync, CrossMod and the circuit bent options, there are lots of lovely tones readily available in ACE that are not common or quick to dial in elsewhere.

It was a bonus when I was first learning, but at this point I wish there was a preferences option to have no pre-wired connections like Bazille.

The modulation options feel a bit limited compared to Bazille. I think ACE is an underrated synth.

[MitchK1989]

Yeah, I love both ACE and Bazille. Probably my two favourite synths in the u-he catalog. I hope the cabled modular format is explored further in the future (I know, uhbik, filterscape, and z3 are all ahead of anything of the sort in the queue...)

[Ploki]

I like both.
I prefer ACE for easy fat-ass sounds and searing leads, but I prefer bazille when i want something that i.e. Serum does but with more organic-ness and flexibility.
Or when i just want to go "out there". I wish Bazille had a free-running mode

The cap-fail and crosstalk knobs are magic in ACE, it's just so easy to make it sound fat and gnarly.