Anyway to return MIDI to an audio track like you would an effect plugin?

[irpacynot]

Was wondering if there was a way to use aux send/return (or similar mechanic) to incorporate a MIDI instrument into an audio track, or is the only option converting the audio to MIDI?

Thanks

[Peter Widdicombe]

You have to remember what MIDI is, essentially. It's a way of representing note and durations, not specifically sound. It includes some extensions, like pressure, key pressure, pitch bend, and specialized controllers, but essentially that's MIDI.

So, MIDI to audio is pretty straightforward - that's what VST instruments do; convert MIDI to audio.

Audio back to MIDI is much more complex. DODO is one of those... Audio in, and attempts to simulate a MIDI source, that can then feed a MIDI instrument. Waveform is pretty good that way - a track is MIDI or audio or both - you treat it whatever way you like; but it really depends on the content; and each get edited/processed in their own manner.

As to having both on the same track, you can specify that in Waveform, and have multiple inputs (you can select number of inputs what they are) but have to figure out how to deal with them. For instance, MIDI Choir takes an audio AND a MIDI input, to perform pitch correction or even "voice chords" by having a MIDI and an audio input; although it's output is then pure audio.

[dysjoint]

As Peter says, yes, but in parallel. The only way I know to get into the routing is inside a rack plugin. Then you have your audio connecters and the red midi connecters. But to get the midi and audio to 'talk' I think you need a plugin (like Vocalsynth2 or dodo)
But you can definitely run them in parallel and have audio and a synth running inside a rack. So, I don't think I've tried the three at the same time, but you could, inside a rack, have dry audio passing through, midi and audio feeding vocalsynth2 or something, and the midi feeding a synth, and sum them all together (as well as add whatever fx in any or all paths)

[Watchful]

You can put a plugin on a MIDI track, obviously.

On an audio track below, set its input to *receive* from the MIDI track. You can then record that audio, or process it separately on its own plugin area.

Is that all you need?

[irpacynot]

As Peter says, yes, but in parallel. The only way I know to get into the routing is inside a rack plugin. Then you have your audio connecters and the red midi connecters. But to get the midi and audio to 'talk' I think you need a plugin (like Vocalsynth2 or dodo)
But you can definitely run them in parallel and have audio and a synth running inside a rack. So, I don't think I've tried the three at the same time, but you could, inside a rack, have dry audio passing through, midi and audio feeding vocalsynth2 or something, and the midi feeding a synth, and sum them all together (as well as add whatever fx in any or all paths)

You have to remember what MIDI is, essentially. It's a way of representing note and durations, not specifically sound. It includes some extensions, like pressure, key pressure, pitch bend, and specialized controllers, but essentially that's MIDI.

So, MIDI to audio is pretty straightforward - that's what VST instruments do; convert MIDI to audio.

Audio back to MIDI is much more complex. DODO is one of those... Audio in, and attempts to simulate a MIDI source, that can then feed a MIDI instrument. Waveform is pretty good that way - a track is MIDI or audio or both - you treat it whatever way you like; but it really depends on the content; and each get edited/processed in their own manner.

As to having both on the same track, you can specify that in Waveform, and have multiple inputs (you can select number of inputs what they are) but have to figure out how to deal with them. For instance, MIDI Choir takes an audio AND a MIDI input, to perform pitch correction or even "voice chords" by having a MIDI and an audio input; although it's output is then pure audio.

That sounds promising, thank you both. So, would this allow me to siphon the sound of a MIDI instrument without composing anything on the track to affect the audio track? Or again, would it still be necessary to compose something on the MIDI track, and then just basically combine the, say, vocal with a synth or something of that nature?

[Peter Widdicombe]

I guess the question is - what are you TRYING to do? Normally you separate tracks to keep things distinct/ controllable. Closely related things can be lumped onto a single track if needed.

Racks allow you the flexibility of mixing matching and routing custom configurations. MIDI and audio can be easily repatched in all kinds of wild and wonderful combinations. Run a MIDI to 3 synths at the same time; take a stereo output and feed one side into reverb and the other channel to digital delay and distortion? Easy !

The only really tricky (and problematic) one mentionned is the audio to MIDI conversion - more because audio to MIDI is a difficult thing to conceptualize/implement anyway.

[Watchful]

Looks like I misread the original request--thought we were trying to route a MIDI track into audio on a second track.

Audio to MIDI is either expensive and complicated or inexpensive and fraught with more errors than correct guesses, in my experience.

[cjayconrod]

If you're looking to convert monophonic audio into MIDI, it is possible, provided you have Melodyne Essential (which is included with Waveform Pro) installed:

-Select the audio clip
-Under "Stretch" in the control panel, select "Melodyne."
-You will now see a new option to "Convert to MIDI Clip" in the the control panel.

I'm not sure if having Melodyne Editor or Studio would allow you to render polyphonic MIDI clips, as I've only upgraded to Melodyne Assistant, but I imagine it would.

[Watchful]

I think the full version of Melodyne can handle polyphony. But be careful with the conversion, as it will take any pitch variations it sees and slice them into (wrong) MIDI notes. Often, the cleanup work converting audio to MIDI is more trouble than doing it from scratch.

[nowgad]

https://samplab.com/
https://github.com/DamRsn/NeuralNote
Here you will find free tools to convert audio to midi.
If you need it.

[irpacynot]

Looks like I misread the original request--thought we were trying to route a MIDI track into audio on a second track.
...

Nope, you had it right.

Basically, trying to see if there's some way to incorporate a MIDI instrument into a vocal track.

So, say I have a nice flute instrument, and want to layer that sound into my voice like I would an effect -- basically overlaying it --without having to actually play a separate MIDI part and incorporate a MIDI clip into the vocal. Just using the MIDI instrument timbre as a effect to use for my voice.

[Watchful]

Well, then, I did have it wrong!

What you might be describing is creating a submix. Or at least, I could solve it that way.

Track 1 is the MIDI flute.

Track 2 is the vocal track.

Select both tracks, right click, and select "pack both tracks into a submix."

This moves these tracks into a new track, which allows you to put effects, adjust levels, etc., as if they were a single track. Put any plugins on the new track, and it applies the same to both. But you still have full control over the individual tracks if you want to turn one up or down.

[dysjoint]

Whether or not you can get this working accurately enough to sound good........

Add a rack plugin. Add two instances of dodo midi as per the user instructions and place your instrument between them. Wire the input to first dodo midi and also straight through to rack output. Connect up the dodo chain, also to the rack output. You can add volume plugins to each chain for mixing control. Now whatever audio passes through this rack will IN THEORY be a blend of the original audio (your voice) and the instrument following the vocal melody. I say in theory as I find dodo to be a bit hot and miss in its interpretation

[Watchful]

I believe a submix would be far easier, and lets him use tools he already has. A submix gives him controls over the flute part, the vocal part, and both parts together.

[irpacynot]

Whether or not you can get this working accurately enough to sound good........

Add a rack plugin. Add two instances of dodo midi as per the user instructions and place your instrument between them. Wire the input to first dodo midi and also straight through to rack output. Connect up the dodo chain, also to the rack output. You can add volume plugins to each chain for mixing control. Now whatever audio passes through this rack will IN THEORY be a blend of the original audio (your voice) and the instrument following the vocal melody. I say in theory as I find dodo to be a bit hot and miss in its interpretation

All right, will give that a try. Thank you.