Rendered files: some instruments sound quieter than they do in TW...

[Ally007]

Why would a rendered wav or mp3 file sound different (re track volume levels) to what I hear in TW? The project I'm working on has tracks that sounds quieter in the rendered files I export, so to get the levels of those tracks sounding right, in the end product, I have to keep rendering wav files and listening to them, until I get it about right. It's a a rigmarole... Does anyone have any suggestions on how to render so that the rendered file that ends up with the same levels as what's heard in TW? Many thanks...

[pough]

Nothing springs to mind, so you might have to do some investigating and give more information. Like, does this happen for every track? For every Edit? Did you ever add any automation? Is there the same plugins on all the problematic tracks? Have you paid attention to the meter readings on a track and then exported just that one track to see what the difference is, if any?

As things stand I think the "where" of the problem isn't much more than a vague handwave from our perspective.

[Ally007]

Nothing springs to mind, so you might have to do some investigating and give more information. Like, does this happen for every track? For every Edit? Did you ever add any automation? Is there the same plugins on all the problematic tracks? Have you paid attention to the meter readings on a track and then exported just that one track to see what the difference is, if any?

As things stand I think the "where" of the problem isn't much more than a vague handwave from our perspective.

Thanks... I will have to investigate further, when time permits, and update this post when I can provide more info.

[Watchful]

How are you listening to the exported WAV files? Through Waveform or through a third-party app? There may be a difference in the audio output levels between Waveform and your computer or car stereo.

It can take some work to configure your computer to ensure all your apps are set to the same output level.

[nowgad]

thanks...

Click on the master volume graph, and see the default levels set. Could this be the reason?

[Ally007]

Click on the master volume graph, and see the default levels set. Could this be the reason?

Thank you, but where do I find a master volume graph? I don't see any mention of it in the manual. If I click on the master output levels meter, nothing happens, despite the popup help tip saying "click here to get more options".

[nowgad]

Click on the master volume graph, and see the default levels set. Could this be the reason?

Thank you, but where do I find a master volume graph? I don't see any mention of it in the manual. If I click on the master output levels meter, nothing happens, despite the popup help tip saying "click here to get more options".

To do this, open the menu. Then when you click on the volume levels you will see the master channel settings. By default, TW on the master channel is set to "-3db". And maybe that's the reason for you.

[Ally007]

To do this, open the menu. Then when you click on the volume levels you will see the master channel settings. By default, TW on the master channel is set to "-3db". And maybe that's the reason for you.

Thank you. Yes, my master volume is at a minus value, but if I increase it, the output levels go into the red, so I feared I'd get a distorted export file. However, when I tried rendering my latest project with an increased master volume, the rendered file sounded exactly the same volume as the one I exported with a lower master volume setting, and with no additional clipping. Strange. Anyway, with this more recent project, at least the track levels in the rendered mp3 come out with the same relative volumes as per what I hear within TW.

[irpacynot]

Just curious, is normalize checked when you render? I believe when you first install the software, it's checked by default. Next time you render, make sure it's not checked.

[Ally007]

Just curious, is normalize checked when you render? I believe when you first install the software, it's checked by default. Next time you render, make sure it's not checked.

Thanks. It's unchecked. I don't think I have ever rendered with it checked, but thanks, anyway.

[Ally007]

How are you listening to the exported WAV files? Through Waveform or through a third-party app? There may be a difference in the audio output levels between Waveform and your computer or car stereo.

It can take some work to configure your computer to ensure all your apps are set to the same output level.

Thank your for this suggestion; I think you may have solved it for me!! I've been listening to the rendered files using Windows Media Player. It's wasn't the overall loudness of the rendered file that was wrong; it was just one or more of the recorded instruments which sound quieter (in relation to the other instruments) after rendering. It's been the same, whether I rendered as MP3, WAV or FLAC.

After reading your suggestion, I tried playing the rendered files using a different audio player, namely QMPlay2. Sure enough, things sounded more correct! It seems to be Media Player that was the culprit. I downloaded QMPlay2 years ago and have never used it till now. It seems better than Media Player for my purposes, and has a visual audio level meter built-in.

So thank you very much for your input!

[Watchful]

Always happy to help.

[Ally007]

Always happy to help.

The problem is not resolved completely; while there is a noticeable improvement when playing back renderings with QMPlay2, it's still not 100% right.

There is a long thread in a Reaper forum, with many Reaper users experiencing exactly the same problem...
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=79074
Unfortunately, as Reaper has different features than TW, it was hard to derive any definitive conclusion from it, but I'll read through it again, when I'm feeling more wide awake!

[Watchful]

One thing to keep in mind--and I'm sorry that I don't know your experience level so I apologize if I'm telling you something you know, but beginner's will read this thread in future--is that final recordings often sound different from mixes.

If you mix with headphones, output can sound very different over monitors, playing in cars, over computer speakers, etc. They each have different materials which aborb or promote different frequencies, enhance some tracks mire than others, and so on.

But a mix can sound vastly better than a final render, as mixes are typically uncompressed audio, and if your project is exported as an mpg or mp4, you're going to hear a difference in many cases. And different codecs (the software that translates digits into audio) can work in different ways, meaning a project that sounds crisp in Waveform can sound boosted or tinny in Windows Media Player or another player.

As everyone's favorite tautology goes, it is what it is. You're already making small adjustments that will improve your playback experience, so you're already on course to solving it. A compressor here, a maximizer there, and so forth.

[Ally007]

You're already making small adjustments that will improve your playback experience, so you're already on course to solving it. A compressor here, a maximizer there, and so forth.

Thank you again. My experience of mixing and mastering in a DAW is pretty limited. Anyway, I think I've solved it! I disabled "audio enhancements" on my sound card, and also rendered at 24 bits instead of 16 bits. This produced a rendering that reflects what I hear in TW. No more mysteriously quiet-sounding instruments!