MPE support public preview revision 15139 (ACE, Bazille, Diva, Hive)

[Lbdunequest]

I personaly dont even care or use the aftertouch... i play the sound on a keyboard, i like it, i paint in piano roll

[pdxindy]

And I think they go on about this on their MPE+ page because with MPE+ they are also promoting the idea that you send expressive messages at a higher rate during the important initial phase. And so MPE+ is not just about higher resolution of messages, but also higher frequency of messages at the start, ie temporal resolution changes too.

In Bitwig, I scale the pressure curve so it is weighted to giving more control over the initial attack.

[pdxindy]

I personaly dont even care or use the aftertouch... i play the sound on a keyboard, i like it, i paint in piano roll

MPE allows the user to paint in the piano roll per voice. You don't need an MPE controller for that.

[Lbdunequest]

I personaly dont even care or use the aftertouch... i play the sound on a keyboard, i like it, i paint in piano roll

MPE allows the user to paint in the piano roll per voice. You don't need an MPE controller for that.

IF DAW supports that right? Also does MIDI support parameters per voice or only clap?

[pdxindy]

I personaly dont even care or use the aftertouch... i play the sound on a keyboard, i like it, i paint in piano roll

MPE allows the user to paint in the piano roll per voice. You don't need an MPE controller for that.

IF DAW supports that right? Also does MIDI support parameters per voice or only clap?

Most DAW's support MPE at this point.

Generally, midi cc's are not supported for per voice modulation. You can draw in per voice pitch, pressure and timbre (CC #74). That is with plugin synths that support MPE (many of them at this point).

Logic supports per voice for any CC's but it is enough of a pain to draw in that I wouldn't bother.

[Lbdunequest]

Im confused. So if MPE can do that with MIDI, why we need Clap ?

[pdxindy]

Im confused. So if MPE can do that with MIDI, why we need Clap ?

In Bitwig, we can add per voice modulators and they work per voice with the CLAP versions of ACE, Bazille, Diva and Hive. That does not work with VST3 versions even though they support MPE. Thew CLAP versions also support Bitwig's Note Expressions which go beyond MPE parameters.

There are other benefits to CLAP, but that is my favorite.

[yellowmix]

I've narrowed the issue down to the option: Preferences > Audio > Playback > Flush FX when looping.

Awesome, thanks for that. I can reproduce this now. And it's indeed Reaper misbehaving.
I have posted the issue in the Reaper forum just now.

Fixed in REAPER 7.07. Thanks for posting!

[tylenol]

Thanks for posting these -- I just picked up an erae touch so I was excited to see them! I think I got it fully working with Hive in live 11.3.13, using the AU version on mac. The general instructions in this thread mostly worked, except that (as someone already pointed out) you need to right click the plugin title bar in the ableton UI, and select "Enable MPE Mode". I suspect it also would need to be set to MPE Lower Zone, but this is the default so that's fine. The touch was configured according to the device's generic Live instructions from the manual.

Some specific notes:

• UI stumbling block (versions of this issue have already been raised in this thread a few times): I had never really messed with midi in hive could not for the life of me figure out how to actually set per instance control A to CC 74 until I finally read the "Note:" on p. 65 of the manual. In general maybe there could be some way to hint in the UI that these are rotary controls? For the MPE case, something more automatic would be great, e.g a button that just does this on the MIDI screen if MPE mode is enabled. Of course, I think this only happened because I loaded up a patch and *then* changed the global defaults for control A, so in the loaded patch it was stuck on CC2. But I suspect doing this will be everyone's first encounter with this setting. Another idea: maybe if control A globally had both an MPE and a non-MPE default, with the former shipping as CC 74, the latter staying as CC2?
• CC 74 seems to be just labeled as "Sound 5", it would probably help people new to this if it was labeled as "MPE slide" or "MPE Y" or something
• Default MPE pitch bend range is 48st, which seems to be a common choice (live does this too for all its plugins). The erae touch defaults to 12st (this is about the largest pitch bend you can do on it, so this value gets the highest precision given that). It has been a pain point with literally everything I have tried so far to get these synced up, including Hive. Most of the MPE-enabled plugins I have tried at least have a global setting for this (except Live Drift maybe), it would be great if U-he plugins could have a global setting for this in preferences, and/or have a way of doing this from the regular pitch bend range control? As far as I know with this device the only way for me to deal with this otherwise is to edit the scene in EraeLab, change each individual control to 48st, then push the scene back to the device. (But I am still figuring this out. And I may be forced to do this for all the default scenes I want to use anyways, if enough plugins lack this configuration.)

[fear83]

I don't know what I changed but Diva doesn't register the pitch bends on the keys of my Osmose anymore. Any ideas?
Pitchbend in Pigments works fine but in Diva there isn't any reaction at all. Pitchbend wheel works normally though.
Edit: figured it out.

[tasmaniandevil]

We have updated the download link for the Diva beta in the first post of this thread.
Steinberg changed their plugin scanning procedure in Cubase 13.0.20.
This resulted in the current Diva version being blacklisted.
The current build fixes that issue.

[Fannon]

I've now used the MPE betas for a while with Reaper 7 and Bitwig 5.1. Really happy with this feature.

Two things stood out to me, that I'd like to give as feedback:

* Mono / Legato / Duo voice mode should not become Poly by enabling MPE. I'm aware that in mono / legato there's no much use of MPE mode anyway. But since MPE is a global setting and voice mode is set per-patch, the latter should take precedence. So when the patch is mono / legato, it's probably better to just disable MPE mode for such patches. (if you want it, you need to set the patch to poly).

* When you enable Arp / Sequencer, the MPE expressions do not work, e.g. Pressure. It would be very nice if the Arp would route through the expressions from the input, but I understand that this may be difficult or unrealistic.

[Echoes in the Attic]

* Mono / Legato / Duo voice mode should not become Poly by enabling MPE. I'm aware that in mono / legato there's no much use of MPE mode anyway. But since MPE is a global setting and voice mode is set per-patch, the latter should take precedence. So when the patch is mono / legato, it's probably better to just disable MPE mode for such patches. (if you want it, you need to set the patch to poly).

True that a mono/legato patch should not become poly, but absolutely not true that there's not much use of mpe with these patches. Being able to use the expressions and play mono/legato and have the expressions maintained separately per note is extremely useful. I do it all the time, such as one note gliding continuously and another note cutting it off intermittently, like an arp. The pitch bends and expressions need to be interpreted separately per note so that there isn't interference between notes, and you don't get the expressions from one note applied to another note played that cuts off the first note. Why do you think there are so many mono/legato mpe patches in equator or the fxpansion synths? It's extremely useful. You simply can not do the same types of pitch bends and expressions with a non-mpe mono/legato patch. Obviously mpe should never be disabled in mono mode. I use that more with mpe than poly even (or about the same maybe).

[Urs]

The MPE specs say that there is an optional Mono Mode where each channel acts as a single monophonic synthesiser, thus giving the controller up to somewhat like 15 voices of polyphony. These voices should act like our Legato mode, i.e. tie notes that are played legato.

We're pretty close to supporting this, but we have not yet fully tested and debugged how expressions move across the notes that are tied in legato mode. At this point we can't estimate how much time we'd need to fully support it.

Apart from that, EvilDragon and others have also suggested that setting the total number of voices to 1 could turn the whole system into a monophonic entity. Then, expressions do not just follow the notes on a channel but they also transition across channels to whatever is the latest note. This is going to be very difficult for us - it might never happen, or at leats not in our current synthesiser projects.

In any case, the MPE specs are satisfied by implementing the polyphonic mode that we have. We will probably not have the resources to deal with optional mono modes as suggested by MPE or others for a while. We will finalise our polyphonic MPE mode asap (probably not before Q2 2024): We'll bring it to the plug-ins that can handle it (ACE, Bazille, Diva, Hive, Repro-5) and make the whole setup much easier.

[Echoes in the Attic]

CLAP Diva mono/legato works great with though!