Greetings.
The header is self explaining. I found most synonyms, but not this one.
To tell from the transfer curve, it looks like one of Waves´ limiters.
The "time" knob is remarkable.
I am trying to learn more about the original units in order to choose one appropriately for a specifc task. There is no need to re-invent the wheel, so if there are time-proven applications for a certain model, why not try it?
Thanks, -H
[solved] What classic unit is MTurboComp´s "mComp" model emulating?
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- KVRian
- 1094 posts since 23 Sep, 2006
Yeah I thought I'd read it was a waves one, either R or H comp. I'm not sure why they picked it to be honest.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 24 Nov, 2023 from Innsbruck / Österreich
Thank you for your replies.
The curves reminded me of upwards expanders, and, looking for a unit that does that and ends with "-comp" I found RComp.
On the other hand, H-Comp, which is by itself a cross-breed of vintage units, has a "punch" control.
Punch is not really a defined word, but it may be akin to the "time" control mComp has. If you look under the hood you see that Attack (despite going from 0-100%) changes only from superfast to fast in the ms-range, while release changes not release but autorelease. This reminds of an 1176, hence the word "punch".
I am starting to believe that this is not an emulation of a classic model per se, but rather of RComp with a little H-Comp thrown in. I am not familiar with expanders, but this is probably worth investigating.
This seems further supported by the fact that there is a Waves-L1 sound-a-like in the list.
But this is all speculative. It may also be SSl X-Comp.
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Edit.
I think I solved the conundrum. Looking at the transfer curve, I thought it deceiptively looks like the transfer curve parallel compression would give. I looked through the documents I have compiled over time and found this:
The attack is superfast, release is program dependent, range is reduced. So it is RComp. Whatever the funny "time" knob does.
The curves reminded me of upwards expanders, and, looking for a unit that does that and ends with "-comp" I found RComp.
On the other hand, H-Comp, which is by itself a cross-breed of vintage units, has a "punch" control.
Punch is not really a defined word, but it may be akin to the "time" control mComp has. If you look under the hood you see that Attack (despite going from 0-100%) changes only from superfast to fast in the ms-range, while release changes not release but autorelease. This reminds of an 1176, hence the word "punch".
I am starting to believe that this is not an emulation of a classic model per se, but rather of RComp with a little H-Comp thrown in. I am not familiar with expanders, but this is probably worth investigating.
This seems further supported by the fact that there is a Waves-L1 sound-a-like in the list.
But this is all speculative. It may also be SSl X-Comp.
------------
Edit.
I think I solved the conundrum. Looking at the transfer curve, I thought it deceiptively looks like the transfer curve parallel compression would give. I looked through the documents I have compiled over time and found this:
User Lagerfeldt (post #12)Fake upward compression is a way of achieving something similar in sound to real upward compression by setting up a downward compressor with a gain reduction cap (gain range) and a non-linear release that is faster during less gain reduction and slower during more gain reduction. The Waves Renaissance Compressor in Electro mode can be set up for this since it has a ratio dependent gain reduction cap (e.g. about a maximum of -6 dB GR at ratio 1.28:1 no matter how low you pull the threshold), and the Electro mode is non-linear. For this to work you must also have the GR hovering around the cap (e.g. -6 dB GR) during maximum GR and
usually it requires a very fast attack too.
The attack is superfast, release is program dependent, range is reduced. So it is RComp. Whatever the funny "time" knob does.
Bingo.Correctly applying upward compression could help automatically and naturally (as opposed to manually micro managing volume automation data) pull up low level signals, but leave the peaks untouched.
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 24 Nov, 2023 from Innsbruck / Österreich
Actually, it is kind of amusing that you have to do detective work to find out what a supplied device is supposed to do. We are not talking about a "normal" compressor...
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- KVRist
- 298 posts since 26 May, 2016 from Byron Bay, Australia
Try McDSP
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 24 Nov, 2023 from Innsbruck / Österreich
The more I investigate in this subject, the more I think the assumption is wrong. I fail to see the similarities if it were RComp. Actually, this is beyond being amusing. It is annoying. It is not that I am not learning a lot, but I as a paying customer should not need to scratch my head about a mystery device.
If it were a proprietory device, a manual should be supplied. If it were a device that is "inspired" by a well known one, then we should know which - without detective work and guesswork and beyond doubt. If a device is "inspired by" then there is no infringement of copyright laws.
The nomenclature obviously is not hint enough to exclude erring.
If it were a proprietory device, a manual should be supplied. If it were a device that is "inspired" by a well known one, then we should know which - without detective work and guesswork and beyond doubt. If a device is "inspired by" then there is no infringement of copyright laws.
The nomenclature obviously is not hint enough to exclude erring.
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- KVRian
- 851 posts since 24 Mar, 2021
I think it's better to listen on what something sounds instead to read labels or search for something.
Even if you own the hardware, you'd need to listen to your sounds to decide how to apply compression.
My suggestion is, to listen to the different models, spend some times with your music trying them out, and learning how they behave, and where every model shines the most.
This is far more useful of any other kind of research, trust me
Even if you own the hardware, you'd need to listen to your sounds to decide how to apply compression.
My suggestion is, to listen to the different models, spend some times with your music trying them out, and learning how they behave, and where every model shines the most.
This is far more useful of any other kind of research, trust me
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- KVRer
- Topic Starter
- 29 posts since 24 Nov, 2023 from Innsbruck / Österreich
This "i like what I hear" approach cannot be trusted in most cases unfortunately. At least not for the untrained ear.
If you are not trained, you don´t know what to listen for. You may recognize that things are different at best. You don´t know if the decision you make is for the better or not. Particularly in the bigger picture. Any guidance you can get here is priceless.
Any sensical advise in using a tool says: "If you don´t understand it, don´t use it."
Some of the controls change very complex mixtures of attack, release, rms size etc. The designer surely has had a very clear picture in mind of how and when to use this. If you don´t know that, then twiddling knobs until you think you like something is a bit thin...
If you are not trained, you don´t know what to listen for. You may recognize that things are different at best. You don´t know if the decision you make is for the better or not. Particularly in the bigger picture. Any guidance you can get here is priceless.
Any sensical advise in using a tool says: "If you don´t understand it, don´t use it."
Some of the controls change very complex mixtures of attack, release, rms size etc. The designer surely has had a very clear picture in mind of how and when to use this. If you don´t know that, then twiddling knobs until you think you like something is a bit thin...
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- KVRian
- 851 posts since 24 Mar, 2021
Someone with untrained ears will just mess up regardless.
Even professionals in bad enviroments with the best tools (even hardware) will mess up everything, cause you cannot mix what you cannot ear, regardless if the lack is about knowledge or a bad listening enviroment.
I don't know if you are speaking about yourself, or just in general, but i think the best approach is to patiently train yourself and to get the best listening enviroment you can afford, headphones, speakers, acoustic treatment.. accordingly to your possibilities.
I see lots of contents on socials like "use this compressor put this knob at that value, and this other knob here to pro-stunning-attonishing-vocals-mixes..." and all that BS, this is not how audio engineering works, and certainly not how people should learn stuff.
This doesn't means MTC shouldn't have devices that sounds closer to the real units ofc.
Even professionals in bad enviroments with the best tools (even hardware) will mess up everything, cause you cannot mix what you cannot ear, regardless if the lack is about knowledge or a bad listening enviroment.
I don't know if you are speaking about yourself, or just in general, but i think the best approach is to patiently train yourself and to get the best listening enviroment you can afford, headphones, speakers, acoustic treatment.. accordingly to your possibilities.
I see lots of contents on socials like "use this compressor put this knob at that value, and this other knob here to pro-stunning-attonishing-vocals-mixes..." and all that BS, this is not how audio engineering works, and certainly not how people should learn stuff.
This doesn't means MTC shouldn't have devices that sounds closer to the real units ofc.