TW will not survive AI.

[Ghlow]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

[UnionS8]

I didn't see any useful audio AI yet. Also, any of the AI image generators didn't kill any other software. It even doesn't steal jobs. It helps, sure, but that's all. It's just (for now) a handsome, but still pretty stupid servant. And to be honest, I love music production, I don't want any AI to dilute my pleasure I barely use any samples, and if I do, they are my self-made ones.
On the other hand, the AI might be a selling point to some people, which desire quick and easy results without any struggle, knowledge, or imagination.

[MEC]

I didn't see any useful audio AI yet. Also, any of the AI image generators didn't kill any other software. It even doesn't steal jobs. It helps, sure, but that's all. It's just (for now) a handsome, but still pretty stupid servant. And to be honest, I love music production, I don't want any AI to dilute my pleasure I barely use any samples, and if I do, they are my self-made ones.
On the other hand, the AI might be a selling point to some people, which desire quick and easy results without any struggle, knowledge, or imagination.

You can read this article about jobs lost to AI

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbs ... report/

As for creative jobs, I believe that many will be saved because the creators themselves adopted the use of AI.

There's a few very impressive AI projects emerging and there are many more to come. The majority are still in training. Which one's did you try?

[whyterabbyt]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

Your single example to back up your hypothesis that an entire class of software tools will be replaced by AI is that a single tool added some AI functionality?
You'll have to troll better than that.

[MEC]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

Your single example to back up your hypothesis that an entire class of software tools will be replaced by AI is that a single tool added some AI functionality?
You'll have to troll better than that.

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that Adobe may have saved Photoshop by having implemented AI tools into it and I definitely agree with that hypothesis.

[whyterabbyt]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

Your single example to back up your hypothesis that an entire class of software tools will be replaced by AI is that a single tool added some AI functionality?
You'll have to troll better than that.

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that Adobe may have saved Photoshop by having implemented AI tools into it and I definitely agree with that hypothesis.

Well, that just makes me wonder if either of you have ever met anyone who uses Photoshop for a living.

[irpacynot]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

Okay...all right...

Slow down, there.

1. It ain't AI. They can call it that because it's currently popular, but trust me, we're the ones doing the learning. It's incredible tech, but it ain't AI. It's still automation, and that's how I see it. Incredible automation, but still automation.

And

2. Five years is a lifetime in the world of technology. That being said, the big tech companies typically last a lifetime or more because of their growth over the decades.

And as an aside, comparing anything to Adobe tech is laughable in my mind. They bog their software with tracking other nonsense, and I doubt they have much original tech to offer. They, like most other large companies, simply take over the creations of others when it hits a point where it's ready for public consumption.

[MEC]

Just like it's happening with graphic design, any DAW that does not adopt full AI functionality, won't survive what's coming. Photoshop was smart enough to see what was coming and they implemented AI and are better for it right now. Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years. DAWS killed the tape machines and AI will kill DAWS, that's just the sad truth. AI: Text to Sample functionality would be amazing to have in TW.

Your single example to back up your hypothesis that an entire class of software tools will be replaced by AI is that a single tool added some AI functionality?
You'll have to troll better than that.

That's not what he is saying. He is saying that Adobe may have saved Photoshop by having implemented AI tools into it and I definitely agree with that hypothesis.

Well, that just makes me wonder if either of you have ever met anyone who uses Photoshop for a living.

You are speaking to one of them. The company that I work for saw a huge drop in client sales last year all because of AI. Many of our customers figured out that they can have Chatgpt in combination with Photoshop with its new AI Generative tools do the same work for them for free. We work mainly with Law firms, we generate graphics for their case work.

[whyterabbyt]

I doubt they have much original tech to offer. They, like most other large companies, simply take over the creations of others when it hits a point where it's ready for public consumption.

Adobe, because of their position in the industries, absolutely have to maintain the reality or appearance of providing the 'leading edge' of tech, its an inertia of their scale. Notably they're only doing so where it needs to be a 'visible' response, which is why they've not making grand announcements about it in Audition and InDesign.
Other companies that are incorporating so-called 'AI' into their software basicallty get to do it on a more measured basis, not because they effectively have to to maintain face. And those that are doing so, seem to be doing so iteratively, improving their existing tools rather than bolting on the flavour of the month stuff. Like Blackmagic, for example.
And lets not pretend these 'AI' tools are new, they're just very high profile right now, so the public thinks its new. And of course its just like other tech that gets in the public eye; its not so long since we had folk saying that DAWs would be obsolete without crypto/blockchain, without VR, without NFT, without social media integration.

[UnionS8]

Apart of all that: Waveform is already incorporating an AI in the form of the Stem Sepparation. Sure, it's not their invention, but it's there. As a graphic designer, I use the new AI features in Photoshop. Not the generative ones (they're still silly), but those as image enlarging, JPG artifacts removing, smart fill, smart masking and so on. They're huge. Something in that regard could be fine to have in Waveform too (noise/hum reduction, drum sounds generation, intelligent EQ, etc.). But Text-to-sample functionality is, in my opinion, total nonsense (yet). I might be biased, because that's not what I'm looking for anyway anywhere.
This is why I think, AI (and yes, it's not an AI, but let's call it like that, as everybody does) won't kill Waveform. But its ancient bugs might

[talby]

[quote=UnionS8 post_id=8821725 time=1704293435 user_id=4940]
(...)
But its ancient bugs might
[/quote]

This.

In the end, one of the very strongest features of any DAW out there is its functionality to act as a good plugin host. Additional functionalty, also AI powered tools, will always be availabel as a plugin, then.

I am a pretty new users to WF, and my emotions for purchasing and having purchased it are still: give it a try, it seems to be worth it, so many well thought features, just awesome - and so many shortcomings, bugs, sound crackles and crashes right in the first hours when just importing one first audio file and starting to play around with the EQ plugin coming delivered with WF FREE.

Meanwhile I found this forum, and that this particular bug would be known and is supposed to become corrected. The unanswered question after several months is: When?
By the way, why can't I find anywhere some patches for known issues - there seem to be more than just one reported bug - and none of them became fixed by now? If fixed, why isn't the fix delivered to all customers, no point releases?
I meanwhile purchased WF PRO, because its for the user well designed GUI workflow is just too promising and with its long time history seems to be worth it. I just owe its developers to receive my support.
But wouldn't it be normal to have paid for the software license and to then at least find little by little some patches for fixing bugs so that the purchased product will eventually accomplish its promised functionality? Actually, is WF still under development? Here, in the by Tracktion officially referred to forum, I didn't find any recent statement from Tracktion about Waveform, its bug fixing, its roadmap. Should I pay again, for the upgrade to the next version, if becoming published, and simply hope that some very basic functionality might then work?

Should I worry? Just use WF as a plugin host and use some other EQ plugin!
Unfortunately, WF for me didn't play well with third party plugins.
Wait! I have purchased the PRO version coming with a developer selected collection of plugins and I should try those! And I meanwhile learned about the PLUGINVAL tool to see ahead if I am about to run into issues with plugins!
Unfortunately, almost no plugin seems to pass the pluginval tests. - Even some native Tracktion plugins coming delivered with WF PRO fail to pass the tests.

Waveform is magnificent, so much power under the hood. If the engine stops stalling then I will drive a race with it.

[Steve Bolivar]

Any DAW that doesn't do the same, will sadly start to fade into obscurity withing the next 5 years.

Judging by how often I get the puzzled dog with the tilted head look when I answer Tracktion Waveform to the question "what DAW do you use?", I'd say it's already pretty obscure. That puts it ahead of the curve. I'll call that a win. Lol

[jabe]

I worked for a decade in IT at a well-known but now defunct UK retailer. Our in-house computer system had a particular bug of little consequence but it happened maybe a couple of times a year. Some of our best people looked into it. Nobody could recreate it. The code was inspected to the Nth degree, the users asked to be as specific as possible about what they'd done. It was never fixed. If we could have reproduced it, we could have fixed it.

Some years ago there was a Tracktion bug that seemed totally random. As far as I recall, it was related to rendering files. Sometimes the render worked, sometimes it didn't. It turned out that there was an option to specify a filename or description or something as part of the render and if a particular character was included in whatever-it-was, the render would fail. Obscure doesn't begin to cover it.

However many Tracktion/Waveform users there are, we all have a computer and there is no guarantee that those computers are set up identically. Any difference anywhere on someone's computer could be the cause. Many people have started from scratch with a brand new operating system and a brand new Waveform installation and still had problems. I'm probably a rarity in that I actually like investigating stuff, including problems, but ideally one still needs to be able to get a bug to happen before it can be dealt with.

[UnionS8]

I worked for a decade in IT at a well-known but now defunct UK retailer. Our in-house computer system had a particular bug of little consequence but it happened maybe a couple of times a year. Some of our best people looked into it. Nobody could recreate it. The code was inspected to the Nth degree, the users asked to be as specific as possible about what they'd done. It was never fixed. If we could have reproduced it, we could have fixed it.

Some years ago there was a Tracktion bug that seemed totally random. As far as I recall, it was related to rendering files. Sometimes the render worked, sometimes it didn't. It turned out that there was an option to specify a filename or description or something as part of the render and if a particular character was included in whatever-it-was, the render would fail. Obscure doesn't begin to cover it.

However many Tracktion/Waveform users there are, we all have a computer and there is no guarantee that those computers are set up identically. Any difference anywhere on someone's computer could be the cause. Many people have started from scratch with a brand new operating system and a brand new Waveform installation and still had problems. I'm probably a rarity in that I actually like investigating stuff, including problems, but ideally one still needs to be able to get a bug to happen before it can be dealt with.

I hear you. But you listened, you answered and tried to fix the bug. We even don't know if our complains are heard. Nor they're being fixed. The silence is disturbing. I simply stopped using Waveform just because I'm not sure, the time I've invested into it, is going to pay off. I don't know if Waveform has any future, and if so, I don't know, how it will look like.
And I can't rely on Waveform. It happened several times, I had to do a complicated rework in Cubase (my primary DAW now). I buy every update of Waveform just in hope the things will get better (they don't) and to support Tracktion, but I don't use it anymore for important projects.

[pough]

I don't find this argument very compelling. Just because it might be true for graphics doesn't make it also true for audio. Any particular AI function might be available as a plugin. TSC is already on the forefront with stem separation.