SWAY - a synth modeled after the Yamaha SY77

[newluc]

Himalaya, I have heard of you as a fantastic sound designer, so you have my respect, but,
please stop!

[Uncle E]

Himalaya's integrity got called into question. He has a right to defend himself. If we attacked each other less here, people wouldn't be getting defensive in the first place. That's the root of the problem.

[jbraner]

It would be helpful if people made their point - and didn't have to repeat it ad nauseum though.

[himalaya]

It would be helpful if people made their point - and didn't have to repeat it ad nauseum though.

Sure, I fully understand this sentiment. I came here to reply to Introspective, not anyone else, when he spoke about not wanting to replace the 'effects', plural, is if I was talking earlier about the whole effect section. I simply clarified in context of his post, that I always meant the 'reverb' and not all effects. In fact, I hope that the original SY77 Symphonic effect will be reproduced fully and faithfully. Does this make sense?
But yeah, come on people, pile on.

jesus christ.

Oh man! He loves lush reverbs, those that recreate all the heavenly spaces! Sadly, the SY77 reverb is not...oh wait, I'm beating a dead horse.

[revvy]

Himalaya told the dev he’d made the wrong decision on p. 8 of this thread and proceeded to hammer home the point in countless subsequent posts.

I reckon he could probably drop it now.

[jbraner]

Himalaya told the dev he’d made the wrong decision on p. 8 of this thread and proceeded to hammer home the point in countless subsequent posts.

I reckon he could probably drop it now.

(Himalaya)
It's not piling on. You've made your point. Now wait to see what happens - OK?

[himalaya]

Speaking of sonic quality.
The effect section output in the SY77 emulation could actually benefit from having a parametric equaliser. The reason is, the SY77 can produce some very pronounced peaks at several frequency ranges all in one patch. A patch in the SY77 can be very complex sounding. It is easy to end up with a sound that has these peaks and they simply make the patch unbalanced, very often it can sound unpleasant. So a nice parametric EQ that can be stored on per-preset basis would be very beneficial. You'd load a preset and play, rather than have to fuss about with loading an EQ plugin each time.

The hardware SY77 has a very basic EQ block with gain at preset frequency points, and one more EQ block with one parametric band, but these are inadequate (impossible to cut at 250hz, 1Kh, 3Khz, 5Khz, as an example) but more importantly, when used, they occupy one of the two time-based effect blocks which would be better used for more creative type of effects, rather than corrective ones. A four band parametric would be very nice to have for the more demanding person, although yes, I get that the dev is not keen on such improvements.

[Vortifex]

[enCiphered]

Speaking of sonic quality.
The effect section output in the SY77 emulation could actually benefit from having a parametric equaliser. The reason is, the SY77 can produce some very pronounced peaks at several frequency ranges all in one patch. A patch in the SY77 can be very complex sounding. It is easy to end up with a sound that has these peaks and they simply make the patch unbalanced, very often it can sound unpleasant. So a nice parametric EQ that can be stored on per-preset basis would be very beneficial. You'd load a preset and play, rather than have to fuss about with loading an EQ plugin each time.

The hardware SY77 has a very basic EQ block with gain at preset frequency points, and one more EQ block with one parametric band, but these are inadequate (impossible to cut at 250hz, 1Kh, 3Khz, 5Khz, as an example) but more importantly, when used, they occupy one of the two time-based effect blocks which would be better used for more creative type of effects, rather than corrective ones. A four band parametric would be very nice to have for the more demanding person, although yes, I get that the dev is not keen on such improvements.

So in the TAL-Pha thread, someone suggested a second envelope, and your response exuded an unwarranted arrogance:

If I want an analog synth with two envelopes I simply turn to something else.

Here, you're incessantly trashing the reverb and delay, clamoring for replacements, a parametric EQ, and topping it off with a little note that the dev isn't keen on such improvements. Nothing short of ludicrous.

[himalaya]

......incessantly trashing the reverb and delay, clamoring for replacements, a parametric EQ, and topping it off with a little note that the dev isn't keen on such improvements. Nothing short of ludicrous.

Trashing the reverb? Didn't you hear it? Don't make me lough. It deserves all the thrashing it can get. But let's not speak a word about the reverb anymore, it's a dead horse, remember?

May I respond?

Interesting point regarding the comparison with TalPha. Please notice Tal actually added some very meaningful additions to the Juno2 emulation, including a lush sounding reverb (and an EQ!)! Why oh why isn't that reverb bad sounding? Why is it so nice? It's because it makes sense to have a good sounding reverb in your synth plugin, no matter whether some users will use it or use a separate reverb FX plugin. But again, no more about the reverb!

TalPha has some very carefully thought out additions. And I'm trying to propose similar, and explain why I see them as beneficial. A suggestion of a better reverb, maybe a parametric EQ will not break anything in this emulation. However, the addition of that second envelope in TalPha would break the GUI as it is a one page design that tried to adhere to some Junoesque theme. However, replacing that original and horrible SY77 reverb with a better sounding one will not break anything at all in the SY77 emu! Not the GUI, nor the presets, or the SysEx compatibility. Can you see the difference?

You quoted me making a remark that I'd turn to another analog synth if I needed a second envelope. I said that, because there are so many amazing analog emulations that fit the bill, but there are no SY77 emulations whatsoever, and so we can't turn to something else that does this sort of sound. Again, do you see the difference?

I posted about the EQ in good faith trying to highlight another valid improvement, so why this hostility? This is an announcement thread where the dev has been listening and has responded to some suggestions. Why can't those who own the real hardware post suggestions about stuff that could benefit this emulation and make it even better than the SY77? What is wrong with some of you? Such hostility. Stupid comments, stupid similies...

The dev has suggested that he wants this SY77 emu to be SysEx compatible with the hardware. An admirable aim. However, TalPha has some cool additions not present in the original hardware and it is still SysEx compatible with the hardware! So it is entirely possible to have an exact emulation and have some modern improvements and keep it SysEx compatible!

Please notice also, I've suggested other additions, like tempo sync for LFO and the multi-stage envelopes (which can be looped) and after the dev has said 'no' to them, I have not said another word despite the fact that you will have an amazingly deep synth plugin that creates motion in several complex ways and none of it will sync to your project! You will have loads of presets that will be unusable in context of a real project in your DAW! Is this dawning on people yet?
Have some understanding and keep the context please. Thank you.

Lastly, you may ask, why I am still posting here, everyone is so hostile, and my 'stupid' little suggestions are...just stupid, right? Well, my hardware SY77 is like my baby. We grew up together. Literally. I'm surprised it's still alive to be honest after all it's been... I learnt synthesis on my SY77 and so it is so close to my heart. Seeing somebody attempt an emu, I got very excited wanting to see some crucial improvements that would benefit us all.

[Uncle E]

Let's just hope he has such a great experience releasing this one that he does the SY99 next, which has nice reverbs and a more refined sound overall.

[mholloway]

Lastly, you may ask, why I am still posting here, everyone is so hostile, and my 'stupid' little suggestions are...just stupid, right? Well, my hardware SY77 is like my baby. We grew up together. Literally. I'm surprised it's still alive to be honest after all it's been... I learnt synthesis on my SY77 and so it is so close to my heart. Seeing somebody attempt an emu, I got very excited wanting to see some crucial improvements that would benefit us all.

You love it dearly, so an emulation is important to you -- got it.

That fact neither explains nor justifies why you've reposted the same identical points over and over again in this thread. You can love the 77 and be excited about a plugin of it and NOT do that, ya know.

[himalaya]

and NOT do that, ya know.

I'm always posting in response to someone else's point. Isn't this a discussion forum?
You address me, I will address you. Common courtesy. Isn't it? You raise a point, another may be raised in turn.

In my post above, I made a rather important observation (that your looped envelopes will not sync to host in your project rendering that looped sound you spent some time editing unusable in your project with any temp sync!) and rather than comment on that you choose to school me on how to post on a discussion forum. Don't be daft.

[sheaf]

Well, I'm thinking it's similar to Dexed vs the DX7.

...Do you have a "notify me of updates" email list going? I'd like to be on it. I've always wanted an SY-series synth, and it would be ideal to have something close ITB. ...Lemme know, thanks.

No I don't, but that's a good idea. I'll set one up soon.

[sheaf]

...

I appreciate you taking the time to offer suggestions, but I've made up my mind about the fundamentals. If I would've gone the other route of using modern features it would have become something that's only very loosely inspired by the SY77, since everything from the envelopes to the filters to the FX section could stand to be improved. A valid approach for sure, but that product already exists: https://www.tracktion.com/products/f-em