Comping - minor issue(s)

[jens]

Comping itself in Tracktion is actually as good as it gets: a dedicated window/container with no cuts on the clip-item, simple swiping, multiple non-destructive comps that can be created with a single click. So far that's perfect in my opinion.

Unfortunately there's a number of small issues though:

- takes are shown/hidden per clip, the comping isn't available in the clip-editor though but only in the track editor.

- takes can't not be shown in the editor only but also always appear in the arragement panel

- the track-editor doesn't properly recall its previous position when being re-opened after having been closed. (If the window was maximized, it'll open in a very small window on the left side (at least on my machine). If it wasn't, things are better (size is kept) but it opens in the wrong position)

- it's possible to toggle "show/hide takes" via an action, but opening the track-editor can't be toggled.

- toggle "show/hide takes" doesn't work inside selected items within the audio-editor but only in the arrangement view

- it's not possible to open the track-editor by double-clicking on a clip(-header)




For me it would ideally work like this:

I double-click one or multiple subsequent items and a window opens (in the previously set size&position) where I can comp-away immediately, then close it with a click and be back at the main window.

A macro action would work for me too. But:

I can't make a macro that toggles both the editor and the takes at once because for the the track editor there is no toggle.

But anyway: in order to toggle the takes, I need to select the clip, in order to open the track-editor I need to select the track; so I basically need to select the clip(s), toggle the takes visible, then select the clip to open the track-editor, then resize and/or move the editor, then I can comp. Then after closing the editor I need to possibly scroll back up on the track/clip to its header in order to be able to select the clip(s) to toggle the takes hidden again.


As a result a lot of clicking and cursor movement is involved for something that could be a single-click affair.


I think the best solution would be if takes could be shown in the clip-editor Bitwig/Reason-style while staying hidden in the arragement view.

What are the odds of this (or any other solution like track-editor being toggable and the possibity to toggle the takes visible from within the track-editor and (ideally) the track-editor properly recalling its previous position and size) being implemented?

Or am I the only one being bugged by this?

[Watchful]

Jens, you're right. Waveform gives you very little real estate to handle comping--especially when you have a dozen or so takes. Where this gets irritating for me is moving from one clip to another, and the track height either jumps to a ridiculous size or suddenly shrinks itself down inconsistently. Either way, I have to manually adjust the height. Your idea of a separate window or view would be welcome.

Also, while I'm piling on, it would be great if--when recording comps--Waveform indicates what take number it's on. The clip always shows "take 1," even if you're on take 5 or 6. It would be nice to see the counter increase on the clip AS you're recording so you have an indication of how many takes you've got.

[jens]

Jens, you're right. Waveform gives you very little real estate to handle comping--especially when you have a dozen or so takes. Where this gets irritating for me is moving from one clip to another, and the track height either jumps to a ridiculous size or suddenly shrinks itself down inconsistently. Either way, I have to manually adjust the height. Your idea of a separate window or view would be welcome.

Yes, I couldn't begin to imagine having to comp in the Arrangement Panel directly. but just to make sure we are on the same page:

this separate window already exists; it's just more difficult to access it/the takes within it that I wish it was, which this thread is about.



Edit: I have no idea why the pic won't show (embedded in my post) - I tried PNG, jpeg and jpg, each both via Google Drive and imgbb - and it's a really small file too - but for some reason it just won't show.

https://ibb.co/fdTCT389

[cjayconrod]

Edit: I have no idea why the pic won't show (embedded in my post) - I tried PNG, jpeg and jpg, each both via Google Drive and imgbb - and it's a really small file too - but for some reason it just won't show.

https://ibb.co/fdTCT389

The WYSIWYG Editor of the forum doesn't allow for inline images. You have to scroll down to the Attachments tab--why that comes AFTER the Submit button, I'll never understand--and upload your image to see it in the message.

[talby]

To my understanding, the tool which you show in the screenshot is simply not meant to be used for the work with comping. My feeling is, that comping is only designed to be used in the arrangement panel.
That the editor is showing the comp recording clips seems to be a side effect of "it surprisingly is partly possible", but not to be that the editor was designed to also become dedicated to the topic of comp editing. My further feelings are, that all audio editors unfortunately are stuck at the level of being some kind of stubs, but not polished tools.
The MIDI editors are very well development and tested, and shine, but not the audio editors. Please proof me wrong!
Is anyone using the audio editors beneficial?

[jens]

Edit: I have no idea why the pic won't show (embedded in my post) - I tried PNG, jpeg and jpg, each both via Google Drive and imgbb - and it's a really small file too - but for some reason it just won't show.

https://ibb.co/fdTCT389

The WYSIWYG Editor of the forum doesn't allow for inline images. You have to scroll down to the Attachments tab--why that comes AFTER the Submit button, I'll never understand--and upload your image to see it in the message.

ah, I didn't know that you can now attach images directly, so thanks for the heads up - I tried using the old php-method (which uses external links) instead:

[img] [/img ] - this always worked in the past but seems to be broken now...

Tracktion_TrackEditor.jpg

[jens]

To my understanding, the tool which you show in the screenshot is simply not meant to be used for the work with comping. My feeling is, that comping is only designed to be used in the arrangement panel.
That the editor is showing the comp recording clips seems to be a side effect of "it surprisingly is partly possible", but not to be that the editor was designed to also become dedicated to the topic of comp editing.

I'm surprised you would say that tbh... what specific functionality are you missing in the Track-Editor (in regards to comping) that is available in the Arrangement Panel? What do you mean with "partly possible"?

To my understanding both are exactly the same, except that the Track-Editor opens in its own dedicated window and thus offers vastly more screen estate (as my screenshot shows, you can comfortably view and comp 20+ takes at once in the Track-Editor).

[talby]

I am not at my workstation right now, but IIRC you cannot zoom into the waveform view for seeing where exactly the splits should be placed. For parts recorded at low volume you can hardly see where syllables start and end, and searching for a zero crossing is also not possible.

[jens]

I am not at my workstation right now, but IIRC you cannot zoom into the waveform view for seeing where exactly the splits should be placed. For parts recorded at low volume you can hardly see where syllables start and end, and searching for a zero crossing is also not possible.

That must really be super-low volume then...

You can zoom in horizontallly just as much as you like and you certainly don't need to comp at zero-crossings since the automatic crossfading works perfectly (i.e. reliably and fully adequately).

Zooming in vertically might be nice at times indeed.

[talby]

I can't make a macro that toggles both the editor and the takes at once because for the the track editor there is no toggle.
But anyway: in order to toggle the takes, I need to select the clip, in order to open the track-editor I need to select the track; so I basically need to select the clip(s), toggle the takes visible, then select the clip to open the track-editor, then resize and/or move the editor, then I can comp.

I was looking through the available keyboard shortcuts and by "Show Macro Editor" which function they call, and searched for other functions according to the Macro API documentation.
I found, that you could assign one keyboard shortcut to this code:

Code: Select all

Tracktion.showTrackEditor ('show');
Tracktion.toggleShowClipTakes();

This reduces clicks to the following:
- click on the Clip with the takes, apply the one shortcut
- click on the Track with the clip and apply again the one shortcut


Trying to reduce this further I found this function to exist:

Code: Select all

var track = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();

What I did not find, but maybe you or someone else knows, is, how to use the content of variable "track" for selecting that track. The aim would be the following pseudo code (not working code, but pointing out what would be needed):

Code: Select all

var trackvariable = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();
selectTrack(trackvariable)

then building something like:

Code: Select all

Tracktion.toggleShowClipTakes();
var trackvariable = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();
selectTrack(trackvariable)
Tracktion.showTrackEditor ('show');

If I would find out how to do this, then I will report back.
Maybe someone already knows it and can share the solution?

[jens]

Trying to reduce this further I found this function to exist:

Code: Select all

var track = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();

What I did not find, but maybe you or someone else knows, is, how to use the content of variable "track" for selecting that track. The aim would be the following pseudo code (not working code, but pointing out what would be needed):

Code: Select all

var trackvariable = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();
selectTrack(trackvariable)

then building something like:

Code: Select all

Tracktion.toggleShowClipTakes();
var trackvariable = Tracktion.getTrackFromSelectedObject();
selectTrack(trackvariable)
Tracktion.showTrackEditor ('show');

Yes - no, I also did not manage to make use/sense of the getTrack command...

I also tried it the other way around, but alas: the Track-objecteditor has a "Select All Clips in Track"-button, but there doesn't seem to be a corresponding action. There is an "select all clips in the same track"-action, but that's not the same - it selects all other clips on the same track instead when there is already at least one selected clip, so that's once again a dead end too.

It's tricky - no matter how I approach this, it appears there is always some crucial link missing to connect it all.