Melda's License Transfer Fee. Fair or not?

[Nicolas Castro]

Hi everyone, hope everybody is ok.
For a long time I've been a Melda customer. Love the AGC, the offline rendering options and a lot of other features. At the moment I'm selling a bunch of plugins I don't use. In the process of selling and doing license transfer's I've dealt with developers who charge nothing for a license transfer, like Tokyo Dawn Labs, Voxengo, and Black Rooster Audio. Others like Fuse Audio Labs, charge a small fee ( 5 euros-dolars) and other's charge a little bit more (Kuassa, Noiseash). Regarding Melda's license transfer policy, I need to pay a license transfer fee of 20% of the full plugin price, which I think is absolutely abusive to customers. For example, if I want to sell Melda's MMixingFXBundle - real price 649$ - I HAVE TO PAY 130$ FOR THE LICENSE TRANSFER. I think this is absolutely unacceptable. In Europe it's ilegal to prohibit license transfers, and allthough Melda permits them, they have seized an opportunity to profit from the situation, easy to do since the law has a loophole regarding license fees. How? Making it very hard for the license owner to sell them at a fair price. (All of this also applies to United Plugins).
In conclusion, owning a Melda plugin is not really true. If aI buy a car and then want to sell it, do I have to pay a big fee to the car's company? I think it's easy to understand what I'm trying to say.
Now that I'm selling a lot of Melda's plugins, I'm actually loosing money.
To wrap it up, and just as a friendly advice: always check the license fee transfer price before buying a developer's plugin. All my respect to Tokyo Dawn Labs, Fuse Audio Labs, Black Rooster Audio, Voxengo and so many more that respect customers and that can tell the difference between abuse and fairness.
Love.

[Hexspa]

I feel that. I didn't even know they had a license transfer fee. Has it always been like that? I know that there are other European developers which do a similar thing, a notable one allowing for up to five transfers before fees.

But yeah, even if it were a car it would depend on the type. For instance, Ferrari will not let you strip the paint and ride around with bare metal. Look at the deadmau5 incident. The thing people never seem to talk about is that you pay for a license, not ownership. So while I'm not siding with Meldaproduction here, I would indeed love to see permissive transfers, it's ultimately their right to conduct business as they see fit.

In fairness, Melda has been S-tier in terms of updates, new releases, and overall living up to their lifetime update guarantee. I can't say that about every developer who has claimed such a thing, that's for sure. So at the least, while you may lose money on this particular transaction, holding Melda plugins long term has only seen a positive return in my case.

Cheers.

[Nicolas Castro]

Hi Hexspa. I understand your point of view. And I absolutely think Melda is great in all of what you are saying. For me personally, all this good things you mention go to waste as soon as I found out about the transfeer fees. I think it's Melda's achilles heel. Ethically unacceptable. I think it's ok to charge for a small fee for a transfer, since it' more desk time for somebody who works.(though not in Melda's case which is automated) the big problem is the % you have to pay, never heard of other developers that do that, maybe there's a bunch, but I don't care, it's still abusive from my perspective. I always thought the plugins were actually mine, they are not. Maybe if in the future you would like to sell one, you'll grasp what I'm saying. Thans for your opinion, best.

[vanerio]

I don't really have a solid opinion on this, but let me comment a bit:
Melda offers lifetime free updates. So let's imagine there is no fee: We have subject 001 that buys the software, then this subject sells it to subject 002, then this subject sells it to subject 003, etc. ad infinitum.
Is it right that every person born and yet to be born, until the human species ceases to exist, has the right to receive free updates from a SINGLE license purchase? Well, I don't think so.

I knew about this fee before I bought all Melda plugins and I didn't care, same with FL Studio (which cannot be sold either).

This concern does not apply to software with paid updates as they don't charge a transfer fee because each update must be paid.

[Svama]

It's a money printing press machine and doesn't work for us like a stock. But free lifetime updates isn't standard.
I don't care, but I'm still waiting for a lot of plugins mentioned years before. Something like dynassist and the, how did he called it, mixing revolution .
Have fun and make music with plugins you like and do the job for you fast and easy.

[TechHaus]

I mean at least you can transfer a license at all. Can I transfer my Final Cut Pro or Logic license, or anything tied to the Apple App Store or Google Play Store? What about a game on Steam?

It COULD be worse...

[noizejoy]

A simple upvote didn't seem enough, since your post should have been the last one in this thread. You've explained very well, that you can't stay in business long term providing free updates for life without limiting license transfers:

I don't really have a solid opinion on this, but let me comment a bit:
Melda offers lifetime free updates. So let's imagine there is no fee: We have subject 001 that buys the software, then this subject sells it to subject 002, then this subject sells it to subject 003, etc. ad infinitum.
Is it right that every person born and yet to be born, until the human species ceases to exist, has the right to receive free updates from a SINGLE license purchase? Well, I don't think so.

I knew about this fee before I bought all Melda plugins and I didn't care, same with FL Studio (which cannot be sold either).

This concern does not apply to software with paid updates as they don't charge a transfer fee because each update must be paid.

Bottom line: Melda's deal is entirely fair.

p.s. Anyone who prefers short term licensing can use subscription rather than buy/sell(transfer).

[Nicolas Castro]

Well, I digress though respect your opinion. For me, fair is the way Fabien from Tokyo Dawn Labs handles license transfers, also Alexey from Voxengo, Laura from Black Rooster Audio, and a long etc, etc. If you can't see the difference, well. For me, Melda's way of dealing with icense transfer fees is absolutely abussive for costumers, time will tell. Great plugins, ethics? Ulala baby, Cheers.

[Hexspa]

I would like to say one last thing, if that's ok, because I feel like this kind of vibe is my specialty.

First, let's talk rationally. Melda's license transfer conditions are clearly stated on their website, and just three clicks from the homepage: home/about/licensing/general info/scroll a little.

I looked up the definition for contract abuse, and it's "exploitation of a legally binding agreement by one party to gain an unfair advantage or harm the other. It typically occurs when a dominant party uses unconscionable clauses, misrepresentation, or coercion to strip the weaker party of their rights or trap them into unfavorable terms."

There doesn't seem to be misrepresentation nor coercion here, so I looked up unconscionable which is " refers to something that is shockingly unfair, unjust, or completely outside the bounds of reason and moderation. It describes actions, behaviors, or agreements that severely lack a moral conscience and are unreasonably oppressive to another party."

Now, several people here have agreed that it is reasonable to add conditions to license transfers to offset the benefit of lifetime updates. 20% of full price is steep, but I find it hard to accept as unreasonably oppressive. For example, MDelayMB is $57 full price, on sale for $29. That's a $11.40 transfer fee, which is less than half of the sale price. To compare, I bought an Octopre Dynamic for $800, but to sell it, I would get around $400 after tax and platform fees. The software has more favorable terms, even with my unit in near mint condition. Cars are the same.

Finally, we have the definition of moral: "principles, beliefs, or behaviors concerning what is right and wrong. It generally refers to actions that align with accepted societal standards of goodness and fairness, or to an individual's personal conscience."

There's more wiggle room here, but an individual can believe whatever they want. What is more relevant is whether this is a reasonable business practice, and it is not unprecedented. For example, Acustica Audio has a far more complex policy, and their list prices are far higher. Take Ruby 3: $235 list, $99 sale. You have to pay a minimum of $10–20 euros or 15% of the price you paid or current sale price. So for Ruby that's $20 euros. Then there are several conditions besides that, which make it more onerous than Melda's policy:

- no upgrades on resold plugins
- restricted to five transfers ever
- can't resell within 6 months of purchase, during seasonal sales, other promotional periods, and if the product is at end of life. See the full list of restrictions here: https://www.acustica-audio.com/pages/sales-policy

Now for the good stuff. Where you choose to see evil, you will see it. If you think you are being abused, then you are, and you will feel that way. You will live in spite and outrage until your final days, spewing harsh words to anyone who will listen to your plight. You will refuse reason. You will scoff at the opportunity to understand, forgive, or accept. Your wound will never heal, and you will go on accumulating wounds until you are covered in sores. Every spare moment of your life will be a torment. You will not be able to sit still. You will leave this world full of resentment.

The words of the Buddha are ever material here, from The Dhammapada, Twin Verses 3 and 4:

He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

Forgive and live in humility and mercy. All else is utter folly.

Peace.

[whyterabbyt]

For example, MDelayMB is $57 full price, on sale for $29. That's a $11.40 transfer fee, which is less than half of the sale price. To compare, I bought an Octopre Dynamic for $800, but to sell it, I would get around $400 after tax and platform fees. The software has more favorable terms, even with my unit in near mint condition

Lets pick a better example, and work it through based on the actual context, ie selling something second hand. Comparing the fee to the 50% sale price is completely missing the point.

So.... MXXX is $1163 full price, goes on on sale for around $580. It'd be a $232 transfer fee, which is 40% of the sale price.
However... You're pretty much never going to be able to sell it for as much as half price, because everyone knows about the half-price sales, and how regular they are so it pretty much gets considered the baseline price to buy at.
The best you can actually hope to sell for is probably 75-80% of the 50% sale price, so $464. (And btw Ive been there, multiple times, and didnt ever get offers that good)
Then you pay the transfer fee of $232, leaving you with $232, ie 20% of the RRP.

To compare, buying an Octopre Dynamic for $800, and selling for $400 after tax and platform fees, is 50% of RRP.
The hardware has far more favorable terms.

[Nicolas Castro]

Great example White Rabbit. Everybody knows about the half price sales. In the end I'm selling some of them just trying to get even, maybe getting 5 or 10 euros max. Hexspa, I understand the analogy with hardware, but in this case, I think it's better to just keep the conversation in "plugin land". Peace.

[Nicolas Castro]

I would like to say one last thing, if that's ok, because I feel like this kind of vibe is my specialty.

First, let's talk rationally. Melda's license transfer conditions are clearly stated on their website, and just three clicks from the homepage: home/about/licensing/general info/scroll a little.

I looked up the definition for contract abuse, and it's "exploitation of a legally binding agreement by one party to gain an unfair advantage or harm the other. It typically occurs when a dominant party uses unconscionable clauses, misrepresentation, or coercion to strip the weaker party of their rights or trap them into unfavorable terms."

There doesn't seem to be misrepresentation nor coercion here, so I looked up unconscionable which is " refers to something that is shockingly unfair, unjust, or completely outside the bounds of reason and moderation. It describes actions, behaviors, or agreements that severely lack a moral conscience and are unreasonably oppressive to another party."

Now, several people here have agreed that it is reasonable to add conditions to license transfers to offset the benefit of lifetime updates. 20% of full price is steep, but I find it hard to accept as unreasonably oppressive. For example, MDelayMB is $57 full price, on sale for $29. That's a $11.40 transfer fee, which is less than half of the sale price. To compare, I bought an Octopre Dynamic for $800, but to sell it, I would get around $400 after tax and platform fees. The software has more favorable terms, even with my unit in near mint condition. Cars are the same.

Finally, we have the definition of moral: "principles, beliefs, or behaviors concerning what is right and wrong. It generally refers to actions that align with accepted societal standards of goodness and fairness, or to an individual's personal conscience."

There's more wiggle room here, but an individual can believe whatever they want. What is more relevant is whether this is a reasonable business practice, and it is not unprecedented. For example, Acustica Audio has a far more complex policy, and their list prices are far higher. Take Ruby 3: $235 list, $99 sale. You have to pay a minimum of $10–20 euros or 15% of the price you paid or current sale price. So for Ruby that's $20 euros. Then there are several conditions besides that, which make it more onerous than Melda's policy:

- no upgrades on resold plugins
- restricted to five transfers ever
- can't resell within 6 months of purchase, during seasonal sales, other promotional periods, and if the product is at end of life. See the full list of restrictions here: https://www.acustica-audio.com/pages/sales-policy

Now for the good stuff. Where you choose to see evil, you will see it. If you think you are being abused, then you are, and you will feel that way. You will live in spite and outrage until your final days, spewing harsh words to anyone who will listen to your plight. You will refuse reason. You will scoff at the opportunity to understand, forgive, or accept. Your wound will never heal, and you will go on accumulating wounds until you are covered in sores. Every spare moment of your life will be a torment. You will not be able to sit still. You will leave this world full of resentment.

The words of the Buddha are ever material here, from The Dhammapada, Twin Verses 3 and 4:

He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

"He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.

Forgive and live in humility and mercy. All else is utter folly.

Peace.

Hi Hexspa, sorry for the delay answering, I just saw your message. I've taken my time to get to conclusions and in the end I absolutely know it was my fault not reading Melda's license transfer conditions. Melda can do as they wish and are doing nothing illegal (something I questioned at first).
So yes, there's no contract abuse, oercion, abusive behaviour, etc, etc. from their part. Still, looking back on all the license transfers I've done from other developers, it was the first time I found a license agreement like Melda's, so I was kind of shocked, and well, honestly felt a little bit betrayed.
So, though they are working inside the law, I see it as an intelligent maneuver to make the licenses very hard to sell, since most people know about the half price sales every month. Maybe I got lucky with other plugin developers, I really don't know. About Acustica? Well, I guess they get the crown in this respect (and also in CPU consumption, haha!)
Just wanted to let you know that I wish Medla the best: I still use and will keep using many of their plugins, Im not mad, or feel abused, etc. I mean, let's look at the world outside: this is a grain of sand in a sea of really big problems!
By the way, I love the quotes from the Dhammapada, I've done three 10 day Vipassana courses, wich left a lasting influence on my life.
So that kind of sums it up. In the end I learned something, always to read license transfer agreements. All cool.
Sorry my english, I hope I made myself understood. Turning the page, one last thing:
I don't if I should calle them features requests, but here are some of them, opinions, feedback, whatever. PEACE.
Best,
Nico.

Feature Requests, Opinions, etc
- It would be great to have a Primary User Guide like Voxengo, where all the common features between plugins are detailed., and to have another manual specifically for each plugin.
- I think there's too much overlap between plugins having MB functions and the ones that don't have. Have you ever thought about maybe merging them into one?
- In MTurboEQ it would be great to have the ability to switch between 2 modes: the actual one and another one with the exact same frequency selection as the original emulated eq's have, with no extra frequencies.
- In the Pultec eq emu, doing the "pultec trick" sounds kind of weird, specially in relation to all the other Pultec emu's I've tried, which are more similar between them.
- It would be great to have the 12k high shelf in the Neve emu. Such a beautiful curve right?
- In MTurboComp, it also would be great to have ratio, threshold, attack and release in all of the comps that had those functions, or at least as a possibility.
- The LA2A emu is very sensitive to gain, in fact a lot of times I have the input in min. and output in max. and still, it gets hit to hard, and the AGC doesn't work as it should in this model. This kind of contradicts the fact that this devices where so easy to use right? I mean LA2A, 2 knobs, instant sound. In MTurboComp it takes longer to get there, (nothing to do with the sound, it sounds great).
- Chandler is great, but it would be great that the tutorials where more to the point, like Kenny Gioia's tutorials for Reaper.
- I know it's cool to have weird named presets (I guess AI's creativity?) but there´s little clue of what they do, until you go through them, wich obviously takes time instead of a preset name giving some hint of what it may sound like.