Tracktion 2 Yes or No?

[Beardedone]

I am still on the fence about the value of Tracktion for me. I have recently spent some more quality time with T1 trying to understand why it is so loved by you all. After over six months I have yet to find Tracktion an inspiring host for midi work. Audio work I do little of outside of Sonar so I am sure I am skewing things not trying Tracktion for audio. But my main reason for buying Tracktion was to simplify automation of Cameleon5000 (in Sonar and Fruity it is nearly imposible to record Cameleon5000 parameter automation). Since I will never buy Cubase, Tracktion was the best choice as Tracktion is a native VSTi host. It solved my solved this dilemma with Cameleon5000 automation. But it is still too awkward to use alone.

In any event I will have to see how good the T2 demo is before I spend any more money on T2. There are way too many other items (Kontakt 2, GPO Jazz Band ) that I want to buy rather than upgrade a sequencer that has just a few features that I find useful e.g. TotalMix, the ability clear out midi events from clips and a simple interface that is more approach approachable but I still find awkward to navigate. Certainly if the midi editing features really are improved I might be swayed from Sonar, Fruity, eXT and Live..... maybe.

Best,
Gordon

[jens]

in Sonar and Fruity it is nearly imposible to record Cameleon5000 parameter automation).

OT: can't speak for FL but actually it's quite easy in Sonar...

[vtx]

Gord ,,I'm really interested in your opinion on this,,I'm exactly where you are with Tracktion...been using it and I'm finally getting somewhat comfortable.
After figuring out the level/pan spline automation(I need to use alot)there are some limitations.
Prices in Canada can be bloated,,as with other places,,but Steinberg Canada has a special on Cubase SL for $129..I was looking at,,compared to $250 for T2 ,,I'm curious what irks you about Cubase...
thanx Ed

[Beardedone]

Gord ,,I'm really interested in your opinion on this,,I'm exactly where you are with Tracktion...been using it and I'm finally getting somewhat comfortable.
After figuring out the level/pan spline automation(I need to use alot)there are some limitations.
Prices in Canada can be bloated,,as with other places,,but Steinberg Canada has a special on Cubase SL for $129..I was looking at ,,I'm curious what irks you about Cubase...
thanx Ed

It is hard to put my finger onit but I find when using Cubase everything feels wrong. Just to get soem perspective on what really has developed into animosty against the app. I tried a demo version Cubase SX a whle back verion 1 I believe- it was so full of bugs that even after I uninstalled I had to do a clean system restore to get my system back in order. Note that I had installed nothing else new at the so it was the fault of that demo. That really pissed me off. I was unable to figure out even basic operation in SX as it kept crashing. I got lost trying to load a VSTi I was not inspired to explore it at all. I understand SX 3 is fine so go ahead and try it. I am not tempted. Cubase VST was hardly much better - I had to read that damn manual just to do a simple thing like load a VSTi and record midi. In FruityLoops the first time I used it doing this was simple as browsing through the drop-down menus. I guess after happily using Sonar, Fruity, Live and for that matter, Tracktion soemwaht, Cubase feels like trying to tie my left shoelace at floor level with my right foot resting on the table. I fail to understand why anyone would use Cubase in any of it's incarnations. It is now number 2 my top 10 annoying programs(MSExcel being number 1 followed by Cubase SX and MS Access).

[chagzuki]

Yes, for sure.

[IIRs]

I'm in.

[Lunch Money]

See, I'm the opposite for you, Gordon-- I use audio almost exclusively, and I really really like Tracktion for it. When I DO use MIDI, it is usually being played in realtime, with very little editing afterward. I even turn off quantize.

So, I can understand why you're still on the fence. For someone with MIDI as their priority, it will be worth demoing T2 first.

Greg

[IIRs]

I use MIDI loads (I earn my living with it ffs!) I still don't need a demo!

I'm so going to buy T2..

[Beardedone]

Beardedone wrote:
in Sonar and Fruity it is nearly imposible to record Cameleon5000 parameter automation).


OT: can't speak for FL but actually it's quite easy in Sonar...

I think I know how now but it is not a simple process. It's a problem using the mod wheel Sonar and I keep forgetting how to set up Sonar 3 to recognize my CC messages from my Mk249C. Sonar sometimes fails to recognize CC messages and I have go into options/midi devices and set them once again. I stil don't know why they are dropped. Tracktion seems never to do that.

[vtx]

Gord ,,I'm really interested in your opinion on this,,I'm exactly where you are with Tracktion...been using it and I'm finally getting somewhat comfortable.
After figuring out the level/pan spline automation(I need to use alot)there are some limitations.
Prices in Canada can be bloated,,as with other places,,but Steinberg Canada has a special on Cubase SL for $129..I was looking at ,,I'm curious what irks you about Cubase...
thanx Ed

It is hard to put my finger onit but I find when using Cubase everything feels wrong. Just to get soem perspective on what really has developed into animosty against the app. I tried a demo version Cubase SX a whle back verion 1 I believe- it was so full of bugs that even after I uninstalled I had to do a clean system restore to get my system back in order. Note that I had installed nothing else new at the so it was the fault of that demo. That really pissed me off. I was unable to figure out even basic operation in SX as it kept crashing. I got lost trying to load a VSTi I was not inspired to explore it at all. I understand SX 3 is fine so go ahead and try it. I am not tempted. Cubase VST was hardly much better - I had to read that damn manual just to do a simple thing like load a VSTi and record midi. In FruityLoops the first time I used it doing this was simple as browsing through the drop-down menus. I guess after happily using Sonar, Fruity, Live and for that matter, Tracktion soemwaht, Cubase feels like trying to tie my left shoelace at floor level with my right foot resting on the table. I fail to understand why anyone would use Cubase in any of it's incarnations. It is now number 2 my top 10 annoying programs(MSExcel being number 1 followed by Cubase SX and MS Access).

thanx for that,,its one thing to find it hard to get around,,but computer problems, I won't tollerate that either,,the heck with Cubase then..I found rewire and multi-tracking in Tracktion sufficient anyway.T2 may well refine automation..
I'll just keep pluggin away with it..

[Mr. Slater's Parrot]

I keep forgetting how to set up Sonar 3 to recognize my CC messages from my Mk249C.

I use Chainer inside of Sonar to make automation really simple. I use the Cakewalk adapter to wrap Chainer. Then, Chainer appears as a DXi inside of Sonar. I can make an instance of Chainer (in Sonar) and then load Cameleon 5000, for example, in that Chainer instance. Chainer lets you do midi learn on any control in any VST/VSTi that you load in it. After loading Cameleon 5000 into Chainer, I click on Chainer's midi-learn menu and then twist a knob on my midi controller (I, too, have the MK-249C). Then, I'm set. I can record automation, create an automation envelope in the track, etc. It works great.

[Beardedone]

Quote:
I keep forgetting how to set up Sonar 3 to recognize my CC messages from my Mk249C.


I use Chainer inside of Sonar to make automation really simple. I use the Cakewalk adapter to wrap Chainer. Then, Chainer appears as a DXi inside of Sonar. I can make an instance of Chainer (in Sonar) and then load Cameleon 5000, for example, in that Chainer instance. Chainer lets you do midi learn on any control in any VST/VSTi that you load in it. After loading Cameleon 5000 into Chainer, I click on Chainer's midi-learn menu and then twist a knob on my midi controller (I, too, have the MK-249C). Then, I'm set. I can record automation, create an automation envelope in the track, etc. It works great

Thanks. Sounds more complex than the direct route in Sonar that Jens is talking about. I am wondering if this Chainer trick possible with eXT? See I don't have chainer.

[Mr. Slater's Parrot]

Thanks. Sounds more complex than the direct route in Sonar that Jens is talking about. I am wondering if this Chainer trick possible with eXT? See I don't have chainer.

It's really pretty simple to use Chainer in Sonar. The nice thing is that you can use the Synth Rack to make instances which means that the midi and audio tracks get inserted and routed automatically for you. In order to use the "direct" method in Sonar, you have to use the "old" method of inserting your DXi (or wrapped VSTi) in the FX bin of the audio track and then route the midi track to the DXi/VSTi manually -- assuming, here, that you want to use midi automation on the DXi/VSTi, of course. And, even using this latter (old / FX bin / manual), method, you don't get midi-learn from your controller.

IMHO, if you are using a hardware midi controller and you like midi-learn and the Synth Rack, then using Chainer beats the direct Sonar method.

You can get the demo version of Chainer from
www.xlutop.com

The demo version lets you do everything described above. It also runs standalone and is great for quick tests of VST instruments and effects and can be used for live playing. The restriction of the demo is that you can't use Chainer's preset mechanism (not needed in Sonar) and you can't use Chainer's soundfont and wav creation tools. Other than that, everything works (if I'm not mistaken).

You can buy Chainer for $60 which, for me, was well worth the price.

[Beardedone]

Thanks but I want to first try this with eXT. Anyway I need save my $$$ after buying a pair of monitors. Damn I havn't even upgraded to Sonar 4 yet so that is next on my budget.

[Mr. Slater's Parrot]

Thanks but I want to first try this with eXT.

Well, you can do the same thing with eXT.

Wrap eXT with the Cakewalk adapter -- you've already done that, I assume.

Then:
o make an instance of eXT in Sonar using the Synth Rack or whatever method you prefer.
o make an instance of Cameleon or any other VSTi in eXT.
o Click on the ... control next to the name of your VSTi in the left-hand pane of eXT to bring up the Show Parameter menu.
o Click on the parameter you want to automate.
o You will now see a control for the selected parameter.
o Click on the box to the left of the control to see the Map to cc menu. Mouse on that and you will see a list of all cc's plus a midi learn option.
o Click on midi learn and then twist one of the knobs on your midi controller.

Bingo!