Creating a wider stereo image advice please

[al2k1]

I have been trying for awhile now to get a wider stereo image when I record my guitar into Tracktion. After fiddling around I was able to come up with a solution:

1) Record guitar in stereo sending L/R to separate tracks.

2) Pan hard left and hard right in corressponding tracks. This creates a normal stereo sound but in order to get it wider I,

3) Move the right track over just a couple of frames so that it starts just after the left track.

This creates the awesome stereo effect I am looking for but was wondering if offsetting the right (or the left) track is a standard way to acheive a strong stereo effect. I was wondering if some of you recording guru's could offer some advice.

Thanks,

[jamesridge]

There are limitless techniques. I prefer a close mic almost touching the grill and another mic 6+ feet away. Panning is based on the particular sound of that recording but I rarely place them with more than 35 degrees of seperation. The key is experimentation.

Jay

[bewing77]

After consulting with a guy I know who works as a studio guitarrist I started taking his advice: One mic about 2 metres away and one right by my ear. Actually gives a great sound.

(edit: the above applies to acoustic guitarr)

One thing to try to get a fatter and richer sound is to instead of ofsetting the L/R signal do another take and use both. Since two takes are never exactly equal it gives a fuller sound. But it needs to be very tight still since otherwise it will be identified as two separate tracks. A shortcut is to use a harmonizer and detune one copy of the track slightly while keeping one clean, basicly doing the same as a unison mode does for a synth. This is commonly done on vocal tracks to give rich sound on coruses etc.

[al2k1]

Hey guys, thanks for the input, I will give it a go with the detuning. As for the mic recording, I go direct to my mixer (from a multi-fx unit) and don't use an amp at all so I guess I'll have to think in terms of virtual mic placement.

Thanks,

[rockstar_not]

putting a small time delay between a hard panned left and hard panned right signal pair is a very popular way of broadening the stereo image.

This was detailed in an Electronic Musician article a year or two ago.

There is a penalty, from what I recall. Depending on the amount of delay between the signals, there can be some frequency domain filtering that takes place, which is dependent upon the amount of delay.

I've never noticed a huge frequency difference when I've twiddled with the amount of delay, but the EM article talked about it for a few sentences, if I remember right.

You could probably use a rack filter to do this automatically. The rack I imagine would have about 4 or 5 filters in place: two different pan filters, one left and one right, one delay line on one of the sides, then a sum filter (don't know what this is at present) to put them back together (or maybe not necessary if you just route the right output of the first pan filter to the right audio output of the rack filter, and the left output of the delay filter to the left output of the rack filter, assuming the delay filter is on the output of the pan filter that's panned left.) I'm not in front of T right now, but I think I'm going to give this a go tonight.

-Scott

[IIRs]

1) Record guitar in stereo sending L/R to separate tracks.

What do you mean by stereo? Are you simply recording the same signal twice? If so, better to just record it once, and then <CNTRL> drag a copy to another track to be delayed..

Only thing to watch out for with that trick is mono-compatibility: if this is important to you, then check your guitar sound (better still, the whole mix) in mono, as the tone will almost certainly change dramatically..

[multree]

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cheers,
mully

[jamesridge]

If you are going direct, you might want to think about some "simulated" room ambience. The room plays a major role in depth and width. Check out the forums on noisevalut.com for convolution plugins and impulse files.

[al2k1]

Thanks again for the responses. platinumears, to answer your question about recording in mono, I am actually recording in stereo with the left side sent to Track A and the right side sent to track B. Overall, it doesn't sound horribly bad, I am trying to acheive that super stereo effect however, Kinda like the string parts on the Fangbonus demo for T where he has two of the same parts with different effects. In my case however, for guitar playing, I am trying to stay away from using plugins because I am already using a ton of effects outside the PC on my guitar setup before the sound gets there. I will try the ambience thing however, I have SIR and will give that a run for its money tonight...oh wait it was free.

PS: My current gtr setup: Epiphone Les Paul copy guitar -> Digitect RP100 -> new Zoom RFX 2200 reverb unit -> stereo outs to Tascam US-428 -> PC USB (P4 3.4 GHz 2G ram) -> Tracktion.

Thanks,