Surround in Tracktion Tutorial

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Hi all,

I've made this little tutorial for using the multichannel AcousModules plugins inside Tracktion (1.6).
The example uses the SpatPod 5.1 for surround mix.

I whish that it can be useful for some of you ?

http://acousmodules.free.fr/tutorial4.htm

Regards
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I don't do surround, but I can imagine it would be highly useful for people who think you can't do a surround mix in Tracktion!!

Cheers!
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Impressing suite of surround plug-ins you offer there.
I've only just started to do some surround - I may come back to your site at some point.

Cheers, Pädy
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acousmod wrote:Hi all,

I've made this little tutorial for using the multichannel AcousModules plugins inside Tracktion (1.6).
The example uses the SpatPod 5.1 for surround mix.

I whish that it can be useful for some of you ?

http://acousmodules.free.fr/tutorial4.htm

Regards
Well done. 8)

I have seen your website and you have a staggering amount of plugins!

Samplers, synths you name it...very impressive. 8) I remember browsing your website and reading about surround in Podium and how much you liked it...it's certainly one of the cheapest, completely realtime (think Live 4 realtime) surround hosts I know of.

I could not help wishing for similar functionality in T2 and was somewhat surprised by it's omission from T2, thats just my opinion 8) I guess many Tracktion users have no need for surround features.

So I pretty much forgot about the whole idea of surround mixing in Trackion as a result.

So to see a thread on the Tracktion forum started by you, I thought here we go... 8). Its amazing how powerful racks are.

However section D of the tutorial Export the 5:1 mix on point *02* you have a screen grab of two racks on the same track Spatpod5:1 and Multirec ...I don't know if you are aware of it, but using more than one rack on a track can cause latency issues.

For anyone interested in bass mangement for surround mixes here is a plug that could be useful...
http://www.kellyindustries.com/bass_manager.html

Thanks again for your efforts acousmod.

Just imagine...possibly another new feature now to be added to Tracktions T1 and T2 line up, Surround sound mixing... :)

Check this link out...

T2 and rack latency
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77224

I was wondering if you were aware of this and if it will affect the 5.1 mix from Tracktion?

Also with your knowledge of racks and surround could Tracktion pull off surround mixes in 7.1, 8.1 or higher?
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Cool. I'll link to this in the sticky Tracktion information if that's ok.
Ben
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www.mackie.com
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Beno wrote:Cool. I'll link to this in the sticky Tracktion information if that's ok.
Ben
Better still Beno why not add this as a feature of Tracktion2 as well? Racks are part of T1 and T2. The sticky idea is great! 8)

It may be a bit late to change packaging and so forth now (maybe at some point in the future) with a snippet of info on the T2 site about it...why?

Every other surround host out there from Cubase, Sonar to Podium clearly state their surround capabilities. Maybe its too early to add it as a feature outright but all Tracktion needs is a surround panner and a tutorial and its got that already. 8)

Acousmod has provided the tutorial and plugs (all free the last time I checked) and Tracktion will ship with commercial and free plugs (Big Tick plugs) if I'm not mistaken anyway.

Also the bass manager from Kelly industries is also free...maybe a word in Mr. Storers ear Beno...what do you think? 8)
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I was thinking that 5.1 could be done in tracktion using racks but hadn't had the time to actually try it out. One thing that isn't clear to me from the tutorial is why you need Multirec 16? Couldn't you just render three stereo track one at a time? I'm wondering is Multirec 16 necessary or just more convienent?
The other thing I would like to add is that not all 5.1 mixing requires 5 channel panning. 5 channel panning and spacial effects need a very precisely set up playback system and only work properly in the sweet spot. Often times a much more effective 5.1 mix can be done with simple 2 channel panning and 2 channel effects. http://www.grammy.com/pe_wing/5_1_Rec.pdf
What I am driving at is that 5.1 mixing can be done with Tracktion "out of the box" (couldn't resist). To list 5.1 mixing as a traction feature though inclusion of a 5 channel panner would be expected.
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Thank you for your replies !
However section D of the tutorial Export the 5:1 mix on point *02* you have a screen grab of two racks on the same track Spatpod5:1 and Multirec ...I don't know if you are aware of it, but using more than one rack on a track can cause latency issues.
In fact, I don't think that this setting is suitable DURING the work, as there is actually a big drawback to this connection : the inputs are mixed so we can't here the separate channels.
I didn't spent enough time with Tracktion to find a better way, so it is only usable at the end of a project in order to record the multichannel mix. So the latencies may not be too serious I presume ?
I must write it on the tutorial.

Perhaps somebody who better knows Tracktion than me can give some help ?
I don't think that the method that I've described is suitable for large projects.
One thing that isn't clear to me from the tutorial is why you need Multirec 16? Couldn't you just render three stereo track one at a time? I'm wondering is Multirec 16 necessary or just more convienent?
It is possible to render each track at a time if you use ONLY one audio track with one surround plugin.
But if you use several tracks, as is it normally the case, I think that you will need several mixing plugins that will send the mix to a new set of tracks ?
I thought that it will be simplier to record all the tracks in only one pass.
But I don't know Tracktion very much, so perhaps is there another method too.
Often times a much more effective 5.1 mix can be done with simple 2 channel panning and 2 channel effects.
I agree. The "surround" method gives some possibilities but is not suitable for all effects.
It is good when one can have the choice !
To list 5.1 mixing as a traction feature though inclusion of a 5 channel panner would be expected.
Of course !
I was also disapointed when I've read the specs of T2 : no multichannel support in 2005 is a kind of anachronism...

But what is advantageous with the racks system (as with the modular way in EnergyXT), is that you are not limited to surround formats and can work with all other kind of spatial setups (even if this concerns only a very small number of persons).


My plugs are far from being ideal, and most of them are in continuous beta stage, but it's nice to be able to use them inside Tracktion.
So if you have some idea to improve it, please contct me.

Thanks
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Hi Acousmod.

Thanks for getting back.I agree with you and Tim a surround panner would need to be shipped with Tracktion 2 before any surround claim can be added to T2's feature list.

I would have thought however that while not a priority (Jules may not even have thought about it)hopefully at some point in future a simple surround panner can be added to Tracktion.

It's good to know that surround mixing while not ideal at this stage is at least possible to some degree in Tracktion.

It affects a minority of Tracktion users I would guess, but is a nice possibility to have. :wink:
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I can see a need for surround mixing in the near future as I do a bit of work with video and sound artist. It was a few weeks ago that my sister ask me to assist her in setting up a system in an auditorium and her school for a 4 channel surround project she has been working on. She mixed the piece using a hardware surround system with a panner. The effect was... well... interesting I guess. I had brought my old Roland SH3 monophonic synth to play with when were done with her stuff. I patched the synth into the front L+R in mono. Added a stereo chorus/reverb to the front and routed it through a full wet multitap delay and into the rears. Now there was an effect way more impressive than 4 channel panning. The whole auditorium was filled with this lush moving soundscape. With different delay times different panning type effects were created. Another student came in and wondering how we were doing the panning. The fact was we weren't, it just sounded like it. I should have tracked it but it had already been a long day and I was too lazy to fire up the computer.
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This is great. Another great guide would be how to take your 3 channels and author them to DVD. Any free tools out there? Can Nero do this?
I know these answers but a good guide would complement this perfectly.
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acousmod wrote:Hi all,

I've made this little tutorial for using the multichannel AcousModules plugins inside Tracktion (1.6).
The example uses the SpatPod 5.1 for surround mix.

I whish that it can be useful for some of you ?

http://acousmodules.free.fr/tutorial4.htm

Regards
Are there any plugs like this for OSX, as it appears your plugs were made with synthedit....
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With different delay times different panning type effects were created. Another student came in and wondering how we were doing the panning. The fact was we weren't, it just sounded like it. I should have tracked it but it had already been a long day and I was too lazy to fire up the computer.
Pity !
Perhaps can you try the SpatChain FX :
http://acousmodules.free.fr/fichiers/SpatChainFX5.1.rar
Basically, it is a 5.1 surround module that is followed by five parallel filters / delays and reverbs.
The two versions inside the archive differ only by the compact or extended GUI.
I think that the sound is not excellent, but we can obtain good results nevertheless.

What you describe is very important : the "surround pans" can be a part in a multichannel mixing, but are not sufficient to make a good work.
Instruments and effects must follow the same logic. It's what I try to make with my plugins, and I am glad that Native Instrument with Absynth 3 and Kontakt 2, or Voxengo's Pristine Space, have understood this well.
Tracktion's racks are also good for this.
Another great guide would be how to take your 3 channels and author them to DVD. Any free tools out there? Can Nero do this?
I'm afraid that there are not yet free tools for encoding. No problem for burning, but we need some Dolby Digital or DTS encoder.
I'm sure that there are a lot of sites that explain this well.
I have something that summarizes the process, but in french.
Perhaps can I try to translate it...
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Are there any plugs like this for OSX, as it appears your plugs were made with synthedit....
Yes : long life to Synthedit !!!

I'm actually trying Sonicbirth for OSX plugins developement, but they will be Audio Units only.
I whished that T2 will support this format, but it seems to use only VST ?
Since Max/Msp + Pluggo costs a lot and the plugins are limited to 8 channel (which is for me not acceptable...), there is no chance to obtain Mac VST plugins from me.
But there are a lot of other developpers !
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soma wrote:This is great. Another great guide would be how to take your 3 channels and author them to DVD. Any free tools out there? Can Nero do this?
I know these answers but a good guide would complement this perfectly.
Here is one free DVD burner thatt supports the following formats...

CD-R/CD-RW/DVD-R/DVD+R/DVD-RW/DVD+RW/DVD-RAM drives... (SCSI - IDE/EIDE - USB).

Burn4free

http://www.burn4free.com/

If you mean burning a surround project / tracks, then although these two are not free they will give you DVD A (DVD Audio disc) burning with Disc Welder Bronze £50

http://www.discwelder.com/

...and this package offers DTS compatible surround CD burning for £50. CD - DTSSurcode.

http://www.minnetonkaaudio.com/PDFs/CD_ ... rature.PDF

http://www.surcode.com/ ...homepage for surcode.
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