Tracktion and my old Roland

[SaviorNeeded]

This one's for Beno, I guess.

Problem: My Korg and my Novation work perfectly with Tracktion. My old Roland RD300 (nearly twenty years now) plays fine, except the hold peddle.

Cause: The CC64 message that the working keyboards send is B0 40 7F 1 for "hold-on" and somewhat the same for "off". The Roland sends that message but at the same time sends the secondary message, "B1 40 7F 2"--in fact it sends a secondary message for all CCs and note on/offs. I'm assuming this is some MIDI deal from the past that no longer is practiced.

Interesting: CC64 does record as automation in Tracktion, but the message is never passed on to the VST. For example, I can use the Roland perfectly in Chainer standalone, but not in Chainer as a VST in Tracktion. IE, no sustain.

Sooo: I have no clue how to get rid of the secondary messages, it only fails on CC64 and I really don't know what to do about it. But I thought Beno you might want to know about this in case it's something that can be resolved in the future. Of course, if I'm completely wrong and all I have to do is turn my Roland upside down and shake it, then I'll be embarassed I guess.

Thanks!

Tom

[Beno]

Hmm, don't have an RD300.
Can you capture the exact output in MidiOx and post the output. Simply make sure there is no other midi I/O going on. Press the sustain and release it. Then copy and post what Midi OX captures. Make sure to note what part is down and what part is up.
Anyone else see this with any other older keyboards?
Ben

[SaviorNeeded]

Hi Beno--Thanks

The headings are In, Port, Status, Data 1, Data 2, Channel, Note and Event.

Pedal Down:
1 1 B0 40 7F 1 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain)
1 1 B1 40 7F 2 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain)

Pedal Up:
1 1 B0 40 00 1 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain)
1 1 B1 40 00 2 --- CC: Pedal (Sustain)

The difference between this and the data from my working keyboards (Korg and Novation) is the second line of pedal up and pedal down--those lines don't exist in the working keyboards.

Tom

[rich_h]

Interesting that it doesn't work and the other keyboards do, because the only difference between the first line and the second is the MIDI channel - the first line is sending sustain on channel 1 and the second is sending it on channel 2.

As for recording the sustain pedal as automation, that problem has been brought up recently - the automation 'fades' between points, whereas sustain is a switch with values of 0 or 127 and when the automation fades between on and off it goes through all the intermediate values and doesn't just switch instantaneously.

If you record MIDI controller data into a MIDI part and not as automation it ought to work.

[SaviorNeeded]

Thanks, Rich. You're right that there's a problem with the automation. All note on/offs also send the second channel info, but they work perfectly. (I don't understand the fade part you mentioned, tho. A screen shot of the automation would look exactly the same for the Roland as my other two keyboards) I just want to be able to play and record a vst with the Roland, sustain included, because I like the weighted action. Knowing nothing about MIDI, I'm wondering if there isn't some way to filter out the second channel info?

This is the same for Tracktion 1, which I own, and the T2 demo. Win2k. I'm hopeful Beno will get back with some thoughts.

Thanks again, Tom

[rich_h]

When you record a part, do you just record everything at once into a MIDI part? If so, you're not actually using automation, it's just recording the controller info as it comes. Don't confuse what you see in the MIDI editor with the automation curves!

Quite why the second sustain command confuses Tracktion, I can't answer that.

Are you using MIDI Ox or something similar? If so, with the help of MIDI Yoke you can set it up to filter out channel 2 data.

You may also want to check your MIDI input for the Roland to make sure it isn't set up to ignore controller data (if indeed you can do that, which I can't remember off hand because I'm at work and... well, you get the picture!)

[Beno]

Actually, Tracktion midi inputs should be able to filter the channel 2 data directly. Select the midi input and you will see a row of 16 midi filter buttons. Simply unclick the channel 2 button and (I think) that should prevent the data from midi channel 2 from being recorded. So then the synth sustain should work. Give it a try and let us know how it works.
Ben

[SaviorNeeded]

Hi guys--

I'm alive and working on my first cup of coffee...

Still no luck here, having tried everything. I'd write it off as a problem with the Roland's MIDI function, except it works perfectly with Chainer in standalone mode. But here's what I've decided...

I was going to take the Roland down to a new studio I'm building for myself. Instead, I'll eventually buy something else. I'll leave the Roland at home and use it to teach my wife a bit of piano, something she has wanted for a long time.

Thus, Beno, your new Tracktion ad campaign can read: "Even Saves Marriages!"

Thanks very much for your attention to this, Beno and Rich. I'm a die-hard Tracktion fan and will upgrade to T2 as soon as I get my new computer.

Tom