Ysabel's Lament

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 8:25 am

Frantz wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 5:19 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:34 am
If they surprised you and got your attention then for me they worked...not quite so sure about the 'uncomfortable', but that's way better than 'didn't notice them' ?! :ud:
This reminds me of the decision to add "comfort noise" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_noise) to phone networks when they switched from analog to digital. People find complete silence disquieting and so engineers add artificial background noise to digital lines to fill in the silent gaps. I guess my ear was looking for a fairly quiet "comfort pad" to maintain the chord when the other instruments stop. :D
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:34 am
Ab Major 7th - which desperately wants to resolve to somewhere and I just let it hang and fade away!
Yes, exactly.
Thanks for the explanation of the 'uncomfortable'...never thought about the 'silence' thing...yeah I get that now! :)

I think classical music possibly does the 'empty moment' thing more than other genres...certainly, quite a few example came to mind very quickly.
I guess my ear was looking for a fairly quiet "comfort pad" to maintain the chord when the other instruments stop.
They don't actually ever drop to total silence you know... I had my foot down on the piano sustain pedal at the end of every phrase...admittedly the sustained notes do drop VERY, VERY low in volume...almost just the reverb on its own at times! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 8:30 am

Jesse Gorter wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:57 am
I enjoyed this a lot. The piano sounds so good. and the cello sounds kinda real to me. But I am not very good at making the distinction to be honest. The composition is beautifull, the changes, the melody.. I like it instantly and did not take a lot of time to get :)
Thanks for having a listen and giving some feedback, Jesse - appreciated.

I would say that it sounds cello-esque and nothing more! :) Don't ever let a professional cellist hear you say 'the cello sounds kinda real to me'...been there and it's not a pleasant experience...they can be very touchy! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 8:37 am

tomtom1 wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 10:25 pm
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:34 am
C minor (tonic)
G minor (1st inversion - before Thomas corrects me) :) :party: :oops:
Ab Major 7th - which desperately wants to resolve to somewhere and I just let it hang and fade away!
hm... the name... that is a coincidence, isn't it? how many of them are around here? at least 3 to 4...

BUT: because voice guidance problems are not to be trifled with (just imagine what can happen when you go from G minor (root) to Ab 7th ... sacrilege !!! i have to agree with that boy...

I remember that after I had to harmonize a hymn (ad hoc) during my studies, suddenly there was silence in the room... and then: didn't you hear the parallels of the fifths? all over again!

so always be careful ... with root positions and inversions! :tu:
No coincidence - just didn't want to be told off for forgetting to mention the 1st inversion! :) :borg: :ud: :roll:

For total harmonic clarity - opening and closing piano motif actually ends on:

Ab Major 7th (no 5th)....I just love the slightly extra edge of starkness / emptiness + any way, in the main body of the piece the cello melody puts the 5th in each time.

My old composition tutor was a massive ABBA fan...

The catchy melodies? Nope

The chord sequences? Nope

The well-structured pop songs? Nope

The bloody use of first inversions at key moments to add that extra edge of poignancy? YEP!

He went on and on and on and on about it every week! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 8:43 am

Jesse Gorter wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:14 am
who is ysabel?
Absolutely no idea! :) :oops: :ud: :roll:

Truth: The word 'Lament' seemed to fit the mood and I wanted a person's name to go with it...

Chose 10 that I thought might work and put them to my family and friends...

Ysabel actually came 3rd in their vote!!! :) :dog: But I had already decided by then that it was the one I liked best! When it comes to naming my tracks I'm a reasonably benign middle class dictatorship! :)
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRAF
11420 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed May 05, 2021 9:29 am

ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 am
justin3am wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:33 pm
Really wonderful work. Sounds like it probably required a lot of detailed programming but also sounds pretty effortless. Very natural.

Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!!!

Programming - wise, yeah, it could've been a lot of work with a lot of automation lanes etc, but I went down a different route with this one...

Played it 'live' ...piano followed by cello...using the one hand to add motion / rise and fall to the cello part in real time...might've been quicker if I'd done it afterwards!!! :)
So you like, *play* music...like on a keyboard? Weird. :lol:
I figured that the cello articulation would require a lot of after the fact programming. Pretty impressive that you can do that while playing. It's incredible what can be done with modern instruments and some skill. Well done!

KVRian
902 posts since 30 Nov, 2004

Post Wed May 05, 2021 10:07 am

poor Ysabel, no one even knows who she is

KVRian
902 posts since 30 Nov, 2004

Post Wed May 05, 2021 10:07 am

Ysabel's revenge

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 pm

Jesse Gorter wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:07 am
Ysabel's revenge
Now there's an idea for a follow up track... Hmmm... Thinking!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Wed May 05, 2021 3:03 pm

justin3am wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:29 am
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 am
justin3am wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:33 pm
Really wonderful work. Sounds like it probably required a lot of detailed programming but also sounds pretty effortless. Very natural.

Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!!!

Programming - wise, yeah, it could've been a lot of work with a lot of automation lanes etc, but I went down a different route with this one...

Played it 'live' ...piano followed by cello...using the one hand to add motion / rise and fall to the cello part in real time...might've been quicker if I'd done it afterwards!!! :)
So you like, *play* music...like on a keyboard? Weird. :lol:
I figured that the cello articulation would require a lot of after the fact programming. Pretty impressive that you can do that while playing. It's incredible what can be done with modern instruments and some skill. Well done!
CC1 = volume rise and fall via a single fader

Speed of playing automates the speed of the legato patch... Shorter the gap between notes, the faster the smooth legato feature responds and vice- versa... You can set the distance between minimum and maximum as well as where they exist on a scale from 1 - 128.

Velocity of the actual key press adjusts the intensity of the legato feature... Higher the velocity, the more intense is the effect....again the scale can be adjusted as above!

Piano Sustain Pedal - triggers an 'Infinite Bow' feature... Means that sustained notes continue smoothly beyond the normal limitations of the sample.

Rich vibrato is built into the patch... No automation possible!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm

justin3am wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:29 am
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 am
justin3am wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:33 pm
Really wonderful work. Sounds like it probably required a lot of detailed programming but also sounds pretty effortless. Very natural.

Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!!!

Programming - wise, yeah, it could've been a lot of work with a lot of automation lanes etc, but I went down a different route with this one...

Played it 'live' ...piano followed by cello...using the one hand to add motion / rise and fall to the cello part in real time...might've been quicker if I'd done it afterwards!!! :)
So you like, *play* music...like on a keyboard? Weird. :lol:
I figured that the cello articulation would require a lot of after the fact programming. Pretty impressive that you can do that while playing. It's incredible what can be done with modern instruments and some skill. Well done!
Nah, that thing is like one patch, the legato. Don't quote me on that, but here I'm sure.
Kontakt scripting. It's amazing, but it's not breaking news. Greg at OTS scripts things you can just play and the instruments do the moves, and this was true 12 years ago.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Wed May 05, 2021 3:34 pm

any automated vibrato is going to be LFO. Some are getting there, I used one last year (of course I forget) that was tol'able.

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KVRAF
11420 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed May 05, 2021 3:53 pm

jancivil wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
Nah, that thing is like one patch, the legato. Don't quote me on that, but here I'm sure.
Kontakt scripting. It's amazing, but it's not breaking news. Greg at OTS scripts things you can just play and the instruments do the moves, and this was true 12 years ago.
It's been a while since I used a Kontakt library. Even when I did, I was only using the most basic features. I'll have to take a look at what's out there. I've had this "I won't use it unless I mic'd it myself" approach to music for a long time and I'm trying to shed it. Seems like I'm missing out on a lot of fun stuff.

KVRAF
21979 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from not here

Post Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm

Well, the goal there is you don't need any 'features'. I don't know anything about scripting myself, it may as well be refrigerator repair to me.
I've gone from being heavily reliant on Kontakt to there being like two things in a project, not a small project. I use it for the gaps, you know, not normal things. SonicCouture does some scripting, for sure. I use their libraries like a synth, electroacoustic, with their filters and EG. But Orchestral Tools is coming out with highly creative libraries that fill those gaps in a new way for me.

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KVRAF
11420 posts since 7 May, 2006 from Southern California

Post Wed May 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Any scripting is a feature in my book. It might not have a knob or button on the front panel but something's pushing buttons and pulling levers behind the curtain. :lol: I think I have some older Sonic Couture libraries. I'll have to check out the new stuff. Thanks for the suggestions!

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KVRian

Topic Starter

1097 posts since 23 Nov, 2018 from Birmingham, UK

Post Thu May 06, 2021 2:05 am

jancivil wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm
justin3am wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:29 am
ChameleonMusic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:46 am
justin3am wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 6:33 pm
Really wonderful work. Sounds like it probably required a lot of detailed programming but also sounds pretty effortless. Very natural.

Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!!!

Programming - wise, yeah, it could've been a lot of work with a lot of automation lanes etc, but I went down a different route with this one...

Played it 'live' ...piano followed by cello...using the one hand to add motion / rise and fall to the cello part in real time...might've been quicker if I'd done it afterwards!!! :)
So you like, *play* music...like on a keyboard? Weird. :lol:
I figured that the cello articulation would require a lot of after the fact programming. Pretty impressive that you can do that while playing. It's incredible what can be done with modern instruments and some skill. Well done!
Nah, that thing is like one patch, the legato. Don't quote me on that, but here I'm sure.
Kontakt scripting. It's amazing, but it's not breaking news. Greg at OTS scripts things you can just play and the instruments do the moves, and this was true 12 years ago.
Yeah, it's just a single LEGATO PATCH, but not quite that straightforward... See my previous post! 😭 Performing patches like this drives ya nuts some days!

Biggest issue with such sample libraries when playing them LIVE is the completely new keyboard technique you have to learn from scratch!

1) Overlapping the notes to trigger the LEGATO scripting is bad enough...

2) Velocity no longer links into volume whatsoever... Try playing a LOUD note with very low velocity so that the intensity of the LEGATO is just right, whilst remembering to hold onto the previous note for 'too long'... Whilst using a fader with your other hand to raise the volume! 😂 Completely different to 'normal' keyboard playing... Took me years to be able to flip from traditional techniques to this and then back again!
Mark Taylor, Chameleon Music - Professional composition and sound design for all media since 1994.

https://www.chameleonmusic.co.uk/

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