Considering Waveform as my first DAW

[dynamo]

I'm new to DAWs and have tried out several free/trial versions of Studio One, Ableton Live, Garageband and Traction/Waveform (all on the Mac platform).
My past experience is using MIDI hardware gear (synths, samplers, drum machines, sequencers), adding reverb, delay to individual sounds, EQing etc and making mainly 80s type funk, soul, electro, boogie etc. and I'm now considering Traction Waveform 11 (especially now with the 40% discount for the next few days) and have some questions:

1) Will Waveform be suitable for mainly sequencing/syncing external MIDI hardware and MIDI keyboards? I will probably start using soft-synths/samplers as time goes by, but my main gear is hardware.

2) can it be synced to an external MIDI clock? (i.e. a MIDI drum machine or external hardware sequencer starts/stops the DAW)

3) I have multiple Traction licenses: what are the differences between T7, Waveform 8 and Waveform 10 free? Is Waveform 10 free a more limited (but newer) version of Waveform 8, and T7 a full, but older version?

tracktion t7.png

waveform 10 free.png

waveform 8.png

I've had a look at the compare versions page, but not being very familiar with DAWs it's hard to tell what those features mean and if I need them or not. I'd rather not pay for features I'll never use.

4) I'm concerned about all the complaints people have about Waveform being unstable and crashing a lot on the Mac platform as discussed in the Waveform 10 vs other DAWS thread. Is there any truth to this, or is it exaggerated?
I'm on a Mid-2010 Mac Pro 5,1 (2.8 GHz quad core Xeon, 24 GB RAM).

5) Based on my explanations here, will one of the free versions do, or should I go "pro"? And which add-ons are worth getting if the free version(s) are too limiting?

[Spitfire31]

I've used Mac exclusively since the Mac Plus. I tried to love Tracktion from version 1 up to, perhaps, version 6 and finally tired of bugs and crashes and lack of proper documentation and incompatibility with many plug-ins. I won't touch it again, now that I use Live 10 and Logic that virtuality never crash and will swallow most, if not all, of the quirkiest plug-ins.

I left Tracktion with the impression that to the devs, new sexy features were more important than creating a robustly stable foundation. I wouldn't touch it, but that is my purely personal experience. No doubt, Waveform fanboiz enthusiasts will tell you a different story.

[UnionS8]

Hi. I have never used the Waveform with hardware synths, so I can't help you. But. I'm now working mainly in Waveform 11, because of it's "straight to the point" nature. I have never been faster in sketching the ideas and making music and it never been so much fun. Once you learn those "hidden" features, you'll enjoy the composing. (Hidden in the terms, you wouldn't expect them to have or would search for them elsewhere.) Because more than in any other DAW, you can make almost anything just using a mouse and keyboard shortcuts and modifier keys. No clickfest in Waveform!
Also. You say, you use a hardware. So maybe for the start, you wouldn't need any higher edition of Waveform 11 than Waveform 11 Pro Basic. Don't bother with the free version, you'll miss many useful features, which makes the composing even more pleasant.

[UnionS8]

I've used Mac exclusively since the Mac Plus. I tried to love Tracktion from version 1 up to, perhaps, version 6 and finally tired of bugs and crashes and lack of proper documentation and incompatibility with many plug-ins. I won't touch it again, now that I use Live 10 and Logic that virtuality never crash and will swallow most, if not all, of the quirkiest plug-ins.

I left Tracktion with the impression that to the devs, new sexy features were more important than creating a robustly stable foundation. I wouldn't touch it, but that is my purely personal experience. No doubt, Waveform fanboiz enthusiasts will tell you a different story.

The truth is... It crashes a lot! More than any other DAW I have. But I'm still returning to W11 as my main DAW for the reasons I have described earlier. For example – Cubase is rock solid on my computer. Also with many advanced production techniques and a ton of plugins. Which is all worthless because it's 30 years old UX

[spoontechnique]

Externally clocking hardware is something I'm also wondering how to do in Waveform. I don't yet have something I can clock to MIDI, but I will soon. I've tried clocking eurorack using an audio output, with decent but unimpressive results. If you download Waveform Free and mess with it, I'd love to here if you figure it out. Which does bring up an issue with Waveform, the documentation and tutorials are limited due to the small dev team and small (but clearly growing) userbase.

Waveform Free is limited in the sense that several advanced plugins are not included. It has no conventional demo limitations, and it is by far the most capable free DAW or demo version of any DAW. WF Free 11 is the most current version. You won't get anything more by using an old version like T7 or T8.

Always funny to see old school tracktioneers warning people off of Tracktion, and then admitting that they haven't used it since Tracktion 6. It's been through a lot between 6 and 11, and the devs have added a lot of great features and stability improvements. I wouldn't ever claim Waveform is the most stable or the most capable DAW, but I've used Live/Cubase/Reaper/PT to varying degrees, and for some reason I'm still coming back to WF. Sometimes it crashes and makes me sad, but most relationships have conflict and friction. It's forgivable.

[dynamo]

Thanks for the replies. Much appreciated
Sad to hear that it's prone to crashes. That complicates the decision
Does it crash in specific situations, or just in general? It hasn't crashed once for me when I've tried it, but of course with my limited knowledge I've barely touched its surface.
Is this a Mac-only problem? Does everybody with a Mac have stability problems running Waveform?
Fortunately it appears there are varying experiences in this respect, and I gather the latest version (11) is more stable than previous versions, so it's something the developers are looking into and continually improving upon?


The difficult thing for me as a newbie to determine at this stage is if these are serious (dealbreaker) type problems, or "it generally works well but crashes now and then, as a lot of other software does". Naturally I'm not going to invest time and money into something which is more of a frustration than a useful tool...

As for other DAWs.. I have a working Albeton Live Lite 10 setup but I feel it's a little akward to use, but then again that's only my first impression and I should probably give it a second chance. Logic Pro I've learnt has just recently upped its system requirements so now I would need to invest in a new graphic card in my Mac Pro in order to run MacOS 10.14 Mojave (when I took a look at it a few weeks ago it would run under 10.13 High Sierra and higher), so that's obviously Apple's strategy -increase the minimum requirements so they can sell newer Mac hardware. And even if I was to buy a new graphic card so I could run MacOS 10.14 you can be sure in a few months they'll have it stop working there unless you go for 10.15 which also means I'll lose the ability to run my legacy 32-bit apps I can't replace. In summary: an added outlay without much to gain, just to be able to run Logic Pro

I guess that leaves Studio One as a serious DAW contender, but without plugin support in the free "Prime" version (or even the reasonably priced "Artist" unless you buy some additional software which costs more than the "Artist" DAW itself) I haven't been able to try it fully out. Has anyone reading used Presonus Studio One?

I guess the big question then is if I should go for Waveform 11 or not


Oh, another thing.... I'm considering replacing one of my MIDI keyboard synths (an original Yamaha DX-7) with a more modern MIDI/USB keyboard controller which I understand can have its knobs assigned for more "hands on" control of a DAW (instead of using the mouse all the time, which I personally find frustrating and tiring). I have no personal experience with any of this current technology (I'm still stuck in in the 80's/90s way of doing things) but that's how I understand it works...
Do I need to get a keyboard controller which is supported specifically for the DAW in question, or is this only a question of it being pre-configured for those DAWs while for other DAWs the buttons/knobs have to be manually assigned by the user?

The Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol keyboards look nice and professional and appear well built, but I really know very little about them and how they compare with other keyboard controllers, and Traction Waveform isn't listed among the DAWs it integrates with.


Spoontechnique: as I have a MIDI hardware drum machine here I'm going to try and see if I can sync it up to Waveform 11 (I'm pretty sure any DAW apart from Garageband can sync to MIDI) and also set it up as the master (and Waveform 11 be the slave). I'll post back here if I figure it out.

[spoontechnique]

Thank you for doing that test.

I use Waveform on a PC, and let's put it this way: I am not kind to DAWs that I use. I have bad habits of using way more plugins and tracks than I should, doing weird things, using iffy plugins, not cleaning up the way I should, etc. I had plenty of frustrating crashes in Live and Cubase. The Tracktion team has been consistently improving stability over the past few versions. The backup feature was a great addition that saved some hassle. Waveform 11 also autosaves basically every second, so I rarely lose progress if I do crash. If you finish a project without a crash on your system, I'd say the outlook looks favorable for you there.

Assigning MIDI controllers is definitely possible in Waveform. I simply don't know how well it will or won't work, because there isn't that much documentation outside of the manual. MIDI control should work with any DAW, but it may not always be convenient or enjoyable. I have no clue. When I started producing, I was sure I'd need hands on control over my DAW. At some point, I realized that keyboard and mouse were simply more enjoyable, so I stopped using my MIDI controller. I never put a serious effort into using my midi controller (a Launchkey 25) with Waveform.

You should check out Admiral Bumblebee's site. He's done extensive comparisons of DAWs (http://admiralbumblebee.com/DAW-Chart.html), assigned them numerical ratings, as well as done extensive reviews of each. His review is what actually sold me on Waveform 9. It's a hard choice, because by the time you realize you're limited by a DAW, you've already poured 10s or 100s of hours into learning it. That said, Waveform Free only costs time to use, and it'll give you a better idea of how much you like Waveform than any other DAW demo would.

One caveat: stock plugins and content are an important feature for many. Waveform's stock plugins (even if you get the extended DAW essentials pack) is, IMO, nothing to write home about. For me that was perfect, since I prefer my patchwork system of random 3rd party plugins. It may be a disadvantage for you.

[astey]

Make use of the full 3 month trial and create a big project with a large number of vst instruments. If w11 holds up to your expectations, buy it. If you feel like it crashes too often buy a daw that is more stable.

Ni keyboard navigation is supported by the following daws out of on top of my head:
Bitwig,reaper, studio one, ableton and cubase (logic?).
Personally, i think the integration is overrated, but everyone is different.

I'm using w11 since 3 weeks and those crashes are a real inspiration killer. I like the feature set though. Gui performance and crashes are saying to me: don't by it. So, I'm evaluating still.
Tip: Never buy a software based on expectations!

[Distorted Horizon]

Bitwig is quite super with hardware. Gets me hard every time

[Watchful]

Sorry, not a Mac user, but have to say spoontechnique is correct across the board. Waveform 11 has been extremely stable for me...much more so than many non-music apps, and about as flaky as other music apps, if we're being honest about flakiness. I switched to Waveform full-time when I realized it was faster to solve musical issues with its interface than Cubase. It's ridiculously flexible, and supports not just cutting-edge recording techniques but, with a little bit of imagination, it can replicate many old-school tricks as well.

I agree the built-in effects aren't great, and the costs-extra DAW Essentials option is seriously overpriced, but they are all easily replaced by so many free replacements that it's not so serious as loss. Frankly, I like the variety of third-party options. But two things set this apart: the built-in instruments are extremely good, and the ability to chat with developers themselves (about bugs, tricks, ideas, and breakthroughs) is simply amazing.

I do use a lot of hardware. As long as your audio interface is decent, you'll have no issues. I connect the audio of all instruments to it, and the USB or MIDI to a hub, and off I go. It's easy to mute and solo, route and send, and do what I need. My only persistent gripe with Waveform is it's a chore to deal with bank and program changes. You have to create a tiny clip in the start of the instrument's MIDI track with the MSB, LSB, and program number and hope your hardware receives it before the first note of your hardware plays. Waveform could so easily fix this (setting this on the track itself like we used to do in 1985), but evidently there aren't enough hardware-oriented players to make the case.

The other issue I have, largely unique to multitimbral hardware players, is that Waveform has no easy way to split a clip into separats MIDI channels. So if you record multiple channels to a single track, and they're all merged into one clip, you're stuck with that unless you want to spend a lot of time setting up sixteen MIDI filters.

But that's it. Those are minor complaints on the hardware side: everything else works extremely smoothly. I mix plugin instruments and hardware instruments pretty heavily, and Waveform handles it incredibly well.

[DavyNix]

Hey - I use with WF10 as my first and only DAW. On windows im afraid so can't comment on Mac but I do use it with the Komplete Kontrol midi controller - simple and easy to use. It is prone to the odd crash but it always recovers just fine without losing anything.

[fde101]

It is normally quite stable until you start using 3rd-party plugins. Then it can crash depending on the plugins that you use.

The sandboxing in Waveform 11 has cut back on that significantly when it is enabled, though the sandbox crashes instead and needs to be restarted to get the plugins working again.

Note that Waveform is not unique in crashing due to problems with plugins - other DAWs go through that as well, it is simply less common on many of the other DAWs, presumably because the authors of the plugins do more testing on the other DAWs and notice the issues that they seemingly ignore when it is Waveform that exposes problems with the way the plugins are coded.

[fde101]

It is normally quite stable until you start using 3rd-party plugins. Then it can crash depending on the plugins that you use.

The sandboxing in Waveform 11 has cut back on that significantly when it is enabled, though the sandbox crashes instead and needs to be restarted to get the plugins working again.

Note that Waveform is not unique in crashing due to problems with plugins - other DAWs go through that as well, it is simply less common on many of the other DAWs, presumably because the authors of the plugins do more testing on the other DAWs and notice the issues that they seemingly ignore when it is Waveform that exposes problems with the way the plugins are coded.

[dynamo]

Sorry, not a Mac user, but have to say spoontechnique is correct across the board. Waveform 11 has been extremely stable for me...much more so than many non-music apps, and about as flaky as other music apps, if we're being honest about flakiness.

That's good to hear, though I hope the "extreme instability" people complain about isn't a Mac-only phenomena and you're lucky because you're using Windows or Linux.

I read somewhere that many of its crashes are due to poorly made plugins which have been thoroughly tested with "the big players" (Logic, Pro Tools, Cubase, Ableton Live etc.) but not with the lesser known DAWs (such as Waveform). EDIT: just as fde101 said above (sorry, I read through things a bit too quickly)
I also read that Waveform hasn't quite caught on big-time because it has a history of being "silently abandoned" by Mackie until it was taken back by the original owner (and further updated/supported) and its previous status has kind of stuck.
I assume later versions (W11) have less bugs than previous versions.

I agree the built-in effects aren't great, and the costs-extra DAW Essentials option is seriously overpriced, but they are all easily replaced by so many free replacements that it's not so serious as loss. Frankly, I like the variety of third-party options.

Yes, I've noticed that it's easy get completely lost in all the available plugins out there. At the moment I have very little experience with them and haven't bought any, but I've downloaded quite a few and see that it takes a lot of time to try them all out.
For starters I just need a handful "bread & butter" effects (reverb, delay etc.) and preferrably some that don't have too many complicated options, but are usable.
One thing I haven't found yet is a free 80s type gated reverb. Maybe I'll have to buy one

But two things set this apart: the built-in instruments are extremely good, and the ability to chat with developers themselves (about bugs, tricks, ideas, and breakthroughs) is simply amazing.

Are you referring to the "Basic", "Standard" or "Extreme" W11 Pro versions with those instruments? Or is there really just one "Pro" version (Basic) while the other two are just discounted packages of that and some separately purchaseable instruments?
While coming from a MIDI hardware background and already having several nice hardware synths I feel most comfortable starting out with that, but I see a huge potential in at least using a virtual sampler as opposed to the real thing (spending ages loading stuff from floppy disks and working with a tiny LCD display) so I'll probably try that out as well to see how it goes.

Developers willing to listen and provide support is an important point!
That said, I wish there was a proper, extensive user manual for it. I've tried to look up various things I'm struggling with (external MIDI gear setup etc.) in order to get started, but the instructions aren't very detailed and it's quite frustrating to say the least.

I do use a lot of hardware. As long as your audio interface is decent, you'll have no issues.

I'm using a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. As far as my limited testing goes it's working as intended, but I'm struggling to use external MIDI gear with it. I've posted in a separate thread about that.

I connect the audio of all instruments to it, and the USB or MIDI to a hub, and off I go. It's easy to mute and solo, route and send, and do what I need. My only persistent gripe with Waveform is it's a chore to deal with bank and program changes. You have to create a tiny clip in the start of the instrument's MIDI track with the MSB, LSB, and program number and hope your hardware receives it before the first note of your hardware plays. Waveform could so easily fix this (setting this on the track itself like we used to do in 1985), but evidently there aren't enough hardware-oriented players to make the case.

Hmmm... hopefully that's a feature which the developers have on their to-do list.
Are there step-by-step instructions somewhere on how to do what you described above?
I'm used to Notator SL on the Atari ST platform (that's definitely 1985!) and you could do just about everything with MIDI there.
Another thing apart from selecting banks/program changes is if W11 can handle MIDI sysex? Back in the day I would dump my synths' patch for the song I was working on over to some tracks in Notator, and when playing back the song it would start by dumping the sysex back to each appropriate synth so I'd have all the right sounds.

The other issue I have, largely unique to multitimbral hardware players, is that Waveform has no easy way to split a clip into separats MIDI channels. So if you record multiple channels to a single track, and they're all merged into one clip, you're stuck with that unless you want to spend a lot of time setting up sixteen MIDI filters.

Hmmmm.... again something I've taken for granted in the past with Notator.
But I can live with that and use one track for each channel.

But that's it. Those are minor complaints on the hardware side: everything else works extremely smoothly. I mix plugin instruments and hardware instruments pretty heavily, and Waveform handles it incredibly well.

Sounds very promising indeed!
How does the audio side of it work?
At present I'll be happy if I can just have it work as the equivalent of a 24-track tape recorder, a mixer with the ability to treat each sound differently (EQ, panning, volume and effects with send/returns) and the usual 80s effects (gated reverb, delay, chorus, flanger and so on) and I'll be a happy camper for a long time

[spoontechnique]

It would have made sense for Tracktion to roll the DAW essentials in with the current basic paid version. They're not strong enough to be an upgrade but their absence makes the base version seem empty. I always thought it'd be interesting to see Tracktion team up with a small, quality DSP dev to include plugins stock with Waveform (such as Klanghelm, Tokyo Dawn, D16, Apulsoft, U-He, etc). Unfortunately they opted to do this with Airwindows, whose plugins are already free and not worth using, IMO. The Airwindows inclusion doesn't really fill the effects gap between the basic and enhanced version.

I think if you specifically want an 80s vibe, most DAWs won't nail that with stock plugins. You could check out D16's Silver Line of modulation effects, Valhalla's delay/reverb, or Goodhertz Megaverb, off the top of my head. Tokyo Dawn and Melda also have great free dynamics and eq options if you find the base effects as underwhelming as I do.