What about MSEG modulator in Bitwig ?

[Biscotto]

@pdxindy
The MSEG points could be subject to modulation if implemented.
IIRC in CableGuys Curve the points are listed for modulation in the MUX.

[Tj Shredder]

To teach ParSeq anything MSEG like would be such a pain just by thinking of

I built an MSEG in the Grid and using ParSeq-8... it's working well for me as a complex shaped LFO and is easy to edit.

I don‘t mind if you‘d share it....
You use it as LFO! That is fundamentally different from an envelope. If you want an envelope, you need to find some extra patching to stop/sustain it... For sure its possible, but as I said a hassle... I actually like those challenges, but in the end its a waist of time. Parseq as complex LFO certainly is a good tool, though clearly aimed at beat centric music. As soon you get out of the grid (I mean the beat grid...) it gets complicated...

[pdxindy]

I built an MSEG in the Grid and using ParSeq-8... it's working well for me as a complex shaped LFO and is easy to edit.

I don‘t mind if you‘d share it....
You use it as LFO! That is fundamentally different from an envelope. If you want an envelope, you need to find some extra patching to stop/sustain it...

Then turn looping off with ParSeq-8... then it is an Envelope with up to 8 steps and each step triggers a different modulator and it stops at the end (which can be a sustain)

[pdxindy]

@pdxindy
The MSEG points could be subject to modulation if implemented.
IIRC in CableGuys Curve the points are listed for modulation in the MUX.

Sure... it is just that editing and modulating individual points is often more work.

[pdxindy]

Parseq as complex LFO certainly is a good tool, though clearly aimed at beat centric music. As soon you get out of the grid (I mean the beat grid...) it gets complicated...

ParSeq-8 doesn't need to be on the grid.

[Biscotto]

@pdxindy
The MSEG points could be subject to modulation if implemented.
IIRC in CableGuys Curve the points are listed for modulation in the MUX.

Sure... it is just that editing and modulating individual points is often more work.

Kind of but it would then make it “less Static” at least.

[brownerthanu]

I’m starting to come around to really wanting an MSEG in Bitwig as well, especially in the Grid. It would be so awesome. That and a dedicated wavetable oscillator.

[hariossa]

I’m starting to come around to really wanting an MSEG in Bitwig as well, especially in the Grid. It would be so awesome. That and a dedicated wavetable oscillator.

+1 on both items

[SLiC]

I suspect they are things we will actually get, would be a great asset to experimental sound design. Sampler could easily be modified to load/play Wavetables. MESG will probably be a new modulator.

Be nice if they could throw in an IR loader in fx.

[Former]

Following this post, I realize, it's an old wish that never came true; MSEG is still not possible in Bitwig.
A tried a few options proposed here as the 8Parstep device, the 4Steps modulator and the steps module in the grid.
With the 4Steps and the 8Parsteps it's very "jaggy" as there are no smooth interpolations between the steps. the modulation of the 8parsteps steps via LFO might achieve something, but it's tricky. And not linear.
-So I went for the Steps module in the and achieved a partial success:https://snipboard.io/MlpZBy.jpg
But if played with slow frequencies, people can hear the steps..the averager or low pass module help to smoothen a bit, but I think there are limits to that- you don't get it completely smooth..so more of a tool for the higher frequencies above 2-5hz.
Wonder if anyone had a better interpolation between the steps in the grid ?

Side note: I bought Serum as I was unhappy with the Bitwig Wavetable Sampler, never got it right. Now, Serum actually resolves two more issues: It has a decent Reverb/Delay and an perfect MSEG that you can also use on their own (Serum FX device).
But of course, what I have in the Grid is easier accessable for any kind of modulation, still interested in an answer..

best regards,
Former

[antic604]

still interested in an answer

No news on this. For now you're best served with GateKeeper:

https://youtu.be/WvFtFNu7R9Q

[Tj Shredder]

It won’t give you a polyphonic MSEG! There is no real workaround.

I should start a rant about envelopes in general. Most synth devs are ignorant because of boring keyboards. ADSR was invented at times where keyboards had been just on/off switches and the space for controls was limited...
Why is this limitation still applied to designs who just don’t have that problem? And that almost 40 years after Yamaha and shortly later Casio showed how envelopes should be??? Its dead simple just give each segment the controls it needs (level and time), then even a three segment envelope like an ADSR could be useful...!!!
With expressive instruments, even keyboards with aftertouch, I need to control the level of the attack independent of the level of the sustain or release segment.
I vote for a general bann of ADSRs, any dev should be punished for even thinking of implementing one. They belong to the history of the dark ages they are of too little use...!!!

[xbitz]

timbre can be routed to anywhere, I'm using this way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BLx3jjnRzU
(ofc. MIDI clips can be looped, so I've used bit awkward way in the video)

the device is still here viewtopic.php?p=7659595#p7659595

the game changer was the new note-chasing support now it works flawlessly

[nbyte]

A workaround for a polyphonic MSEG in Bitwig is to use the Sampler (Grid) as a MSEG player.
Use audio samples or generate curves with DC Offset and render to Audio. You can loop, play at different speed and direction or control the playhead position with other modulators ...

Here I have made a video how to setup the sampler as a MSEG modulator:
https://youtu.be/FWIec7pEKWs

When you use the Grid sampler - you can use the modulator out and assign to every parameter!

[u-u-u]

With expressive instruments, even keyboards with aftertouch, I need to control the level of the attack independent of the level of the sustain or release segment.
I vote for a general bann of ADSRs, any dev should be punished for even thinking of implementing one. They belong to the history of the dark ages they are of too little use...!!!

Since I'm using the C15, I'm quite content with the ADBDSR envelopes it has. (attack-decay1-breakpoint-decay2-sustain-release). The only real MSEG-like element is the breakpoint and the two decay phases. Good thing is that the decay and release times can be turned up to infinity (good for drones). Also velocity is also cleverly mapped to the envelope timing (like attack). And the envelope timing can be keytracked as well. Most of these things probably can be done through clever Grid patching as well.

Maybe have a look at the 'Funkay Piano' preset in the Bitwig Factory Library where I heavily velocity-mapped envelope times to velocity.

Also depends on the controller you use and what someone wants to do. For more continuous controllers (like the Seaboards, Haken Continuum or Expressive E Osmose) one probably doesn't need any complex envelopes because it can all be played instead of drawn via modulation. Or multiple simpler envelopes could be combined if really needed.

I just had a small idea on how to achieve multiple segments inside the grid and get different segments/curves for attack and release. Probably not what you all want here, but maybe someone gets some more ideas out of it

some segments.png

I'd like to have some better (more exact) options on how to modulate envelope times. E.g. that I can set the modulation range to an exact start and end time or that the envelope times correspond to certain period values according to a given pitch/frequency.
Also I'd like to have some more comfortable way to link envelope + delay times together. That would allow for composing multiple envelopes to one more complex, custom envelope.