How do you Live like that?! ;) :D

[antic604]

Do I need Max4Live to use LFOs? Since then, 600 EUR is way too overpriced. Would have expected 350 EUR for the max. edition (including at least LFOs, multi-segment envs etc)

Yes, you need M4L/Suite.

I was wrong. See posts below

[xbitz]

^^^ + https://isotonikstudios.com/product/modulat/ £91.01 if you need a modulation framework (especially after Biwig this is a must-have one... ), the cheapest usable MSEG(which can be triggered by MIID notes) also m4l based but at least free http://maxforlive.com/library/device/4620/midi-shaper one

ps. the usable one is not free ... ofc.
https://youtu.be/k8xcWfa06iY?list=PL4MR ... 8wKZfMjZj2 https://isotonikstudios.com/product/the-movers/

+ AL doesn't know MIDI channels in its inner-routing Nora (chord chopper) can't be used in it, so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjI5MUp57Xw
€39.00 https://k-devices.com/products/hexo/ hey .. "A hobby is a great consolation to a man."

btw. I have bought max independently https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/ so still have only standard + max, suite would be additionally
Upgrade to
Live 11 Suite
Complete integrated studio
EUR 269

no, no ... that was BWS instead

[BobDog]

...

[XorXisT]

Do I need Max4Live to use LFOs?

If you're talking about Live 11, not anymore.

Live 11 Standard comes with LFO, Shaper & Envelope Follower.

Live 11 Intro comes with LFO.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/

[pdxindy]

Do I need Max4Live to use LFOs?

If you're talking about Live 11, not anymore.

Live 11 Standard comes with LFO, Shaper & Envelope Follower.

Live 11 Intro comes with LFO.

https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/

So LFO is now a standard Live device and not M4L? Positive change

[ozinga]

So LFO is now a standard Live device and not M4L? Positive change

Under the hood still a Max Device. Envelope too.

[zengel]

Since the beta of live 11 , i switched back to live for my main projects . I still continue to keep and support Bitwig cause i love them to and i am curious to see their next move . But live "pull a big rock in the swamp" (French translation of a cultural expression) .
Sorry but not sorry as for me it's not a competition .
Competition is a paradoxe . Make us evolve faster on the beginning but at a certain point joigning knowledges will make innovation far more incredible I ... I just wait Bitlive (I prefer more "Bitlive" than "Ablwig") ! !!

[gesslr]

^^^ + https://isotonikstudios.com/product/modulat/ £91.01 if you need a modulation framework (especially after Biwig this is a must-have one... ), the cheapest usable MSEG(which can be triggered by MIID notes) also m4l based but at least free http://maxforlive.com/library/device/4620/midi-shaper one

ps. the usable one is not free ... ofc.
https://youtu.be/k8xcWfa06iY?list=PL4MR ... 8wKZfMjZj2 https://isotonikstudios.com/product/the-movers/

+ AL doesn't know MIDI channels in its inner-routing Nora (chord chopper) can't be used in it, so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjI5MUp57Xw
€39.00 https://k-devices.com/products/hexo/ hey .. "A hobby is a great consolation to a man."

btw. I have bought max independently https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/ so still have only standard + max, suite would be additionally
Upgrade to
Live 11 Suite
Complete integrated studio
EUR 269

no, no ... that was BWS instead

These are great examples of why I keep Live around. Some folks complain about Live’s reliance on M4L. I think it leads to some fascinating devices and tools that are really fun and often unique.

I don’t care for the workflow in Live overmuch. (I’ve got to admit that audio and midi comping in v11 catches my eye though.) But it’s got a developer community in M4L that creates some great devices that can be used for sparking and sketching some ideas ... and I always have the option to render and pull things elsewhere for finishing up.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

...snip...
Some folks complain about Live’s reliance on M4L. I think it leads to some fascinating devices and tools that are really fun and often unique.
...snip...
a developer community in M4L that creates some great devices that can be used for sparking and sketching some ideas
...snip...

This is exactly why I changed from Studio One / Bitwig to Studio One / Abelton ... (with Cubase on the background for historical reasons )
much more people involved, more idea's, taste's, view's, skills and backgrounds.
Going solely to native idea's, tools and constrictions, one risks creating a vicious circle of a mono-culture of how things are done and sound.

... sigh ... back to the boring spreadsheets to calm down my accountant ...

[SLiC]

I also stuck with Live (never sold my Suite Licence) as I had some great MAX stuff and 3rd party packs. Now I am currently more interested in Live 11 than Bitwig again (its the current new toy)...but happy to use both!

[pdxindy]

So LFO is now a standard Live device and not M4L? Positive change

Under the hood still a Max Device. Envelope too.

Interesting... so Max is installed and running in the other versions... just not accessible to the user.

[xbitz]

^^^ + https://isotonikstudios.com/product/modulat/ £91.01 if you need a modulation framework (especially after Biwig this is a must-have one... ), the cheapest usable MSEG(which can be triggered by MIID notes) also m4l based but at least free http://maxforlive.com/library/device/4620/midi-shaper one

ps. the usable one is not free ... ofc.
https://youtu.be/k8xcWfa06iY?list=PL4MR ... 8wKZfMjZj2 https://isotonikstudios.com/product/the-movers/

+ AL doesn't know MIDI channels in its inner-routing Nora (chord chopper) can't be used in it, so
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjI5MUp57Xw
€39.00 https://k-devices.com/products/hexo/ hey .. "A hobby is a great consolation to a man."

btw. I have bought max independently https://www.ableton.com/en/live/max-for-live/ so still have only standard + max, suite would be additionally
Upgrade to
Live 11 Suite
Complete integrated studio
EUR 269

no, no ... that was BWS instead

These are great examples of why I keep Live around. Some folks complain about Live’s reliance on M4L. I think it leads to some fascinating devices and tools that are really fun and often unique.

I don’t care for the workflow in Live overmuch. (I’ve got to admit that audio and midi comping in v11 catches my eye though.) But it’s got a developer community in M4L that creates some great devices that can be used for sparking and sketching some ideas ... and I always have the option to render and pull things elsewhere for finishing up.

IMO dependency risk was real this why Ab has bought Cycling '74, although "Cycling ‘74 remaining a separate and independently-run entity, wholly owned by Ableton" - https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/ableton ... rtnership/

[gesslr]

......
IMO dependency risk was real this why Ab has bought Cycling '74, although "Cycling ‘74 remaining a separate and independently-run entity, wholly owned by Ableton" - https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/ableton ... rtnership/

I think that is absolutely on the money.

[pdxindy]

These are great examples of why I keep Live around. Some folks complain about Live’s reliance on M4L. I think it leads to some fascinating devices and tools that are really fun and often unique.

I don’t care for the workflow in Live overmuch. (I’ve got to admit that audio and midi comping in v11 catches my eye though.) But it’s got a developer community in M4L that creates some great devices that can be used for sparking and sketching some ideas ... and I always have the option to render and pull things elsewhere for finishing up.

I appreciate the developer community for M4L. At the same time, it can be frustrating. One thing, it is expensive to buy a bunch of M4L devices. A lot of the free stuff ends up not supported, out of date, a bit buggy and so on. If I am going to buy stuff, I may as well buy VST plugins which can then be used across DAW's.

By the end of my time using Live, I had stopped using M4L except for a few specific devices. Fortunately M4L is much more stable today.

The tempo follow feature from 11 is disappointing. It turns out it only works with an audio input (not very well) and cannot be used for tempo mapping any audio or midi clip like in Logic. The comping is cool!

I enjoy Bitwig too much to switch back to Live and Logic fills in the weaknesses of Bitwig better than Live does. Bitwig and Logic are a great combo until Bitwig 6 or whenever it fills out enough to be my only DAW.

[liquidsound]

I still have Bitwig installed, 3.2.3 IIRC, and one renewal to be used for v4 because my current version has plenty of functionality for my basic exploratory needs but Live 11 has the necessary environment for my workflow and creativity still unmatched by other DAWs (personal view).
I absolutely love M4L devices regardless of the fact of them being locked into the DAW but that’s the DAW I’m using for my complete production needs.

Sticking with a Tool you realize the power of adaptation and flexibility to overcome shortcomings as long as the Tool, at the end of the day, allows me to achieve my goal and Live is just that.

After playing with the extraordinary modulation system of BWS I came to the conclusion that my music (at the present stage) can do with out it, but nothing is written in stone of course.