So what's next for U-He?

[pierb]

I would love to see a merger of the Bazille and Zebra Oscillator for Zebra 3... that would be awesome.

EDIT: I would love to see a merger of the Hive, Zebra and Bazille Oscillator....

Urs, basically put all your products into Zebra 3 with a new UI and you're done.

[operator]

Urs, basically put all your products into Zebra 3 with a new UI and you're done.

To be honest, when looking at the competition it would make a lot of sense to do somthing like that with Zebra3... When you look at Kilohearts and their PhasePlant... they also have broken down version of their other plugins inside the synth`s FX section...
MSoundFactory also has all Melda-FX inside the synth --> many of them Per-Voice.

Maybe it could be like a "Berlin Modular-Style" project... combining all the new code they got for Zebra with a lot of other U-he "Synth/FX modules" in one product. e.g. having a "Bazille Oscillator", "Diva JP8080 Oscillator", "Zebra3 MSEG", "Sascha`s Drum Model", "Hive`s ShapeSequencer", "Satin`s Saturation", "Uhbik`s Grain Pitch", "MFM`s Delay with optional Feedback FX", "Diva Filter"...

The FX/Generators wouldn´t have to be full version like in the dedicated products, but could be simplified versions... like e.g. RePro5`s Velvet that originates in Satin.. maybe a little bit more complex than Velvet ...

TO BE HONEST, istn´t that exactly what people (including HansZimmer) are asking now for several years..? They (me inlcuded) want a "Merger" a "Cherry Picked Toolset" from the dsp-arsenal of their favorite developer. Like in the PowerRangers, when they all merge to this awesome Mega-Bot... "MegaZebra"


EDIT: I would love to see some Per-Voice Uhbiks (F/G/P/S) in Zebra3...

[Urs]

It's what people have been asking for since forever. Thankfully we are not listening though because once it's there, nobody would want to/be able to use it.

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

[DocSnyder]

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

+1. Just look how convoluted, generic and cpu intense MSF got for doing basic things. Offering everything leads to wanting to be able to modulate everything and combine all of that and just getting lost.

[Tj Shredder]

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

+1. Just look how convoluted, generic and cpu intense MSF got for doing basic things. Offering everything leads to wanting to be able to modulate everything and combine all of that and just getting lost.

I am able to modulate everything in Bitwig, they made it in a way I never get lost...
But I totally agree upon MSF or Phaseplant though, even Lion which only does it half way, I always think I am missing something....
But for what I expect from Urs is not an Eierlegende Wollmilchsau (he knows what that means). I love the sounds and the character in his tools more than an overwhelming set of features...

[mevla]

Maybe it could be like a "Berlin Modular-Style" project... combining all the new code they got for Zebra with a lot of other U-he "Synth/FX modules" in one product. e.g. having a "Bazille Oscillator", "Diva JP8080 Oscillator", "Zebra3 MSEG", "Sascha`s Drum Model", "Hive`s ShapeSequencer", "Satin`s Saturation", "Uhbik`s Grain Pitch", "MFM`s Delay with optional Feedback FX", "Diva Filter"...

A standard that would allow module interoperability between different synth and FX makers.

Loading a "Bazille oscillator" into MSF ...

[EvilDragon]

That could be VCV Rack.

[pierb]

It's what people have been asking for since forever. Thankfully we are not listening though because once it's there, nobody would want to/be able to use it.

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

Now in all seriousness, it depends a lot on the execution.

Zebra has tons of modules and it's very usable. Phaseplant is another good example of this idea.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to be able to buy extra modules for Zebra (oscillators, filters, effects, modulation).

[Urs]

It's what people have been asking for since forever. Thankfully we are not listening though because once it's there, nobody would want to/be able to use it.

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

Now in all seriousness, it depends a lot on the execution.

Zebra has tons of modules and it's very usable. Phaseplant is another good example of this idea.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to be able to buy extra modules for Zebra (oscillators, filters, effects, modulation).

The problem I see is consistency. Many different concepts - different filters, different oscillators etc. - clash because they require specialized parameter sets. At some point we end up with either very bloated modules which have a lot of parameters that are orphaned at any time, or we make different types of modules which are all called "filter", "oscillator" etc. In Zebra I think we've always had a pretty good middle ground - not too many competing module types, not too many subsets within those modules. Allthough, too man things are called distortion or filter, and too many similar concepts have too inconsistent types user interaction.

Anyhow, without meaning anything in particular, I just don't see how a synthesizer with 10+ different kinds of filter modules and 10+ different oscillator modules is usable. Therefore, the idea of Zebra was always to make the individual modules versatile enough that competing concepts don't require to be implemented in additional module types. There's a sweetspot for this somewhere, where flexibility meets usability before they diverge and turn into a feature creep.

[pierb]

There's a sweetspot for this somewhere, where flexibility meets usability before they diverge and turn into a feature creep.

I agree, of course. Nobody wants Homer Simpson's car.

That said... can you share what is the general concept behind Zebra 3?

Is it the same modular concept with improved sound, modules, and UI? Maybe there will be audio rate modulation or is there some other major feature?

As someone who has been waiting almost a decade for it I'd love to know in which direction you're heading.

[pdxindy]

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

+1. Just look how convoluted, generic and cpu intense MSF got for doing basic things. Offering everything leads to wanting to be able to modulate everything and combine all of that and just getting lost.

+1000

It seems like a kind of relentless addiction to more with no actual practical purpose.

What I notice with the new breed of do every possible thing imaginable synths is that they make the same sounds as the previous synths made... except they have worse workflow and consume more resources.

The main things I want from Zebra 3 are a streamlined workflow with the combining of some redundant modules, improved voicing architecture with MPE. Expression curves. Ability to modulate envelope stages.

And of course whatever dsp tech advances u-he has learned over the years applicable to the Zebra concept. Some new physical modeling tools would be sweet. Uhm scripts will be useful. But please keep Zebra as Zebra!

[blue monk]

Agree with the usability aspect. I use Logic Pro out of pragmatism. Logic had live arranging features (Touch Tracks) long before Ableton Live was around. But it was allegedly buggy and not user friendly. I don't have first hand experience. At least the usability aspect is probably correct as Logic can do a lot with the "Environment". I never touch that. I would most likely waste my life on that thing doing something that is easy with other tools or not important enough for the musical result.

When I see a modular softsynth with virtual cables, I would only touch that if the sound is too good to ignore. I'd think twice before trying or buying it.


That said, I feel like I have to bring up the Roland System 700. That would be irresistible if well down.
For that or any modular synth I would suggest that the developer considers 2 GUIs: One with cables and one with a traditional panel and mod matrix (in Hive you have kind of virtual cables when you set up modulations from what I recall from a demo video).

I would take it as a monophonic version although, again, I do not really understand why one would exclude polyphony in general. Wether usable then depends on CPU power.

I would actually be very interested in learning what other consideration come into play there.
I remember Urs explaining that some of the effects in Repro 1 would not sound great with polyphonic sounds.

Other potential reasons that I can think of:
• People could be angry if one voice uses 30% of their CPU power so polyphony is not realistic for their current computer.
• Commitment to the monophonic concept (I wouldn't agree with that but I see that someone would want to choose that perspective)

I assume that are other reasons that I didn't think of.


Be that as it may, I strongly suggest to everyone to reconsider the focus. Again, the most important sounds in most music are monophonic (leads, bass) and great monophonic sounds seem to be harder to do for soft synths (except for supersaw based sounds, which are not suitable for everything).

I don't know about everybody else but I am pretty much covered with soft synths that deliver respectable polyphonic chords, pads etc.

And I have another suggestion to actually find out for sure, what people will buy, or not. I will put this in my next post here.

[blue monk]

People ask for features and products. Wether they buy what they ask for is uncertain.

I suggest to use crowd funding to test how many people are willing to commit to buying a particular product.

I personally would make an upfront payment for these:
Roland SH7+5 (+3)(pretty much System 100 without cables although the OSC of the SH3 is more flexible than a regular OSC), Teisco 110f/SX400, Roland System 700, Roland System 100m, Crumar Spirit, a synth based on the Livewire AFG oscillator, ARP 2500.
Probably also Octave Cat, Korg 800DV/700S.

The Teisco 110f with Wave Animator modification by Michael Barton and the SX400 are perhaps unlikely candidates. If people vote with a payment though...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_E9Kyz04HY
This SX400 is impressive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mTLlEjvtOg

Made my point. Lets see if something like this happens. Giving Diva another shot either way.

[the.new.me]

It's what people have been asking for since forever. Thankfully we are not listening though because once it's there, nobody would want to/be able to use it.

(I simply don't think that "everything" is a good concept)

I think it depends on the way you implement all this stuff and how you design the GUI. But this can be very objective.

I can give a perfect synth for me that does everything in my opinion very well and has all features usable in practical terms without overwhelming.

Ability to do analog style sounds
Wavetables
Sample import
Handy features with ease like, compensating filter shelving, attack boost, drag and drop modulation ect

Parawave Rapid

It's so feature packed, has basicly every feature any synth has from even uhe but arranged and packed (minus msegs and complex Fm) in such way it's incredibly hands on and easy to use.

Also I'd ad Serum, Dune and Phaseplant to that category of synths that are incredibly easy to use and do not overwhelm you visually if you don't want to, but are feature packed and easy to get use of that complexity.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

If anyone remembers that announced monophonic hardware synth with Jupiter 6 filter, please let me know. I can't remember and if I google it, I only find Eurorack modules.

The Udo Super 6? It's a poly though...

http://udo-audio.com/