Virtual Headhpone Studio Solutions

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRian
918 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:22 am

legendCNCD wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:15 am
For me the VSX headphones are the main thing, nothing and I mean NOTHING I've heard gives those precise deep sub-a-like basses on Headphones than VSX's.

I've had almost as much headphones as bManic and VSX's are easily the best ones I've used even without the binaural rooms - or even without HD LInear 2. The bass is just there, solid, precise.
This is where I become a bit skeptical of this product. The headphones are apparently fairly plastics and might not last. I really can't see them being better than e.g some solid metal beyerdynamic dt1990. You do need a correction curve on dt1990 but the oratory curves work really well. dt1990 have a great bass also. And a really good starting sound.

Vsx have an advantage in that, to an extent, they just need a single correction curve for their one model.

It does sound like it.works as a system though, and their room models sound interesting. I've been using Waves Nx as room models and think these are actually great, especially their ocean way.

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KVRist
472 posts since 10 Jan, 2017

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:01 am

_leras wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:22 am
legendCNCD wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:15 am
For me the VSX headphones are the main thing, nothing and I mean NOTHING I've heard gives those precise deep sub-a-like basses on Headphones than VSX's.

I've had almost as much headphones as bManic and VSX's are easily the best ones I've used even without the binaural rooms - or even without HD LInear 2. The bass is just there, solid, precise.
This is where I become a bit skeptical of this product. The headphones are apparently fairly plastics and might not last. I really can't see them being better than e.g some solid metal beyerdynamic dt1990. You do need a correction curve on dt1990 but the oratory curves work really well. dt1990 have a great bass also. And a really good starting sound.

Vsx have an advantage in that, to an extent, they just need a single correction curve for their one model.

It does sound like it.works as a system though, and their room models sound interesting. I've been using Waves Nx as room models and think these are actually great, especially their ocean way.
There will almost certainly be headphones with technically better performance than the VSX - and absolutely there are headphones with better build quality. But it's the way the room emulation plugin is tuned to that headphone that creates the "magic". As bmanic said previously - it just works :)

I've had no issues with the build quality on mine though I do feel I have to handle them more carefully than my HD650 or M50x. A few other users, unfortunately have had issues with the headband cracking and now there are supply chain issues with getting replacements. Until this is running smoothly, this may be where the product falls down.

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KVRian
918 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:38 am

andymcbain wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:01 am
There will almost certainly be headphones with technically better performance than the VSX - and absolutely there are headphones with better build quality. But it's the way the room emulation plugin is tuned to that headphone that creates the "magic". As bmanic said previously - it just works :)

I've had no issues with the build quality on mine though I do feel I have to handle them more carefully than my HD650 or M50x. A few other users, unfortunately have had issues with the headband cracking and now there are supply chain issues with getting replacements. Until this is running smoothly, this may be where the product falls down.
Well.... Technically there are two parts to this. Room modelling and likely an EQ correction curve to 'fix' the non flat headphone response.

Any other correction software would need to focus on multiple headphone models. This one can focus more time on calibrating for a single model of headphone.

£479 is just too much for me to try it out when I'm happy with waves ocean way, plus a custom oratory eq curve for my beyerdynamic dt1990.

It would be interesting if slate offered up their room models, separate from the headphone.

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KVRian
1077 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:51 am

Very happy with my DT1990 and Realphones combo. Awesome low-end.
More BPM please

KVRist
72 posts since 4 Dec, 2003 from Oregon, USA

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:24 am

_leras wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:15 am
idoru97214 wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:11 am
Personally, I ended up landing more happily on Sienna than VSX (my VSX are on sale in the forum here on KVR - shameless plug [well, vaguely feeling shame about the plug]), but I never would have even tried the field of headphone binaural software if not for the community's very vocal adoption of VSX.

My mixes with Sienna are not any better or worse (to my ear) than mixes with VSX, I just work better with the Sienna sound. Don't know why.

But for those who still haven't tried one of these systems, I say, honestly give it a try. For me there was a pretty short adaptation time, and now I'm pretty much dependent on Sienna.
Which part of Sienna are you using? Where does a person start?

The website for it is a mess. €150 for the main product €70 for 'expansions' of a few more rooms. And seems like they are just rushing to throw more and more rooms on there. Even the main product seems to have too many options.

I think room models really can help with headphones, but all rooms are different and all have quirks. How many room emulations is it helpful to have, which are the good ones in Sienna, how much does it cost to get a few useable ones? This product puts me off even before I've started... Not sure I even want to demo it....
I like the great amount of choice. I had fun spending time to find the room I liked to work in the most (for me it is Bach in volume F - two different sets of ATC). But if you aren't the type that likes to explore, then the number of choices in Sienna could easily feel overwhelming.

If you like Waves, then I would just stick with that. We all have reasons why we like what we do. If what you have is working, just stick with that, right?

KVRer
26 posts since 19 Jul, 2021

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:35 am

idoru97214 wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:24 am
_leras wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:15 am
idoru97214 wrote:
Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:11 am
Personally, I ended up landing more happily on Sienna than VSX (my VSX are on sale in the forum here on KVR - shameless plug [well, vaguely feeling shame about the plug]), but I never would have even tried the field of headphone binaural software if not for the community's very vocal adoption of VSX.

My mixes with Sienna are not any better or worse (to my ear) than mixes with VSX, I just work better with the Sienna sound. Don't know why.

But for those who still haven't tried one of these systems, I say, honestly give it a try. For me there was a pretty short adaptation time, and now I'm pretty much dependent on Sienna.
Which part of Sienna are you using? Where does a person start?

The website for it is a mess. €150 for the main product €70 for 'expansions' of a few more rooms. And seems like they are just rushing to throw more and more rooms on there. Even the main product seems to have too many options.

I think room models really can help with headphones, but all rooms are different and all have quirks. How many room emulations is it helpful to have, which are the good ones in Sienna, how much does it cost to get a few useable ones? This product puts me off even before I've started... Not sure I even want to demo it....
I like the great amount of choice. I had fun spending time to find the room I liked to work in the most (for me it is Bach in volume F - two different sets of ATC). But if you aren't the type that likes to explore, then the number of choices in Sienna could easily feel overwhelming.

If you like Waves, then I would just stick with that. We all have reasons why we like what we do. If what you have is working, just stick with that, right?
Yeah, experimentation has been a huge thing for me in SIENNA and option anxiety is definitely a thing. If you have the patience though, it will definitely reward you. :tu:
Leo Alvarez
Rezenent Music

KVRist
73 posts since 22 Jul, 2019

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:09 pm

Waves AR Studio 3 plug is by far the best and most important plug I have ever purchased,candy 2nd place isn't even close.
I have to mix in my tiny bedroom and once I got this plug and set it up to work with my 7506 headphones it changed everything for the better. It was not only the best plug I ever bought, it was even more important that most all my hardware purchases.
No wonder when I would hear a former mix in a car the bass would either totally drown out the rest of the frequencies or the highs would be shrill and horrible.

Best plug I have and would even get rid of most of my hardware before letting go of this plug.

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KVRAF
3336 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:54 pm

I'm using the CLA Nx system with Toneboosters morphit, which has really improved my mix downs, having the three references plus the additional sound card to standard PC speakers plus sub pretty much covers all I need and the CLA Nx has helped me get better mix downs out of it. Mastering not so much, that's a dark art that I don't fully get yet. But they are home projects,if I ever went further I'd pay for the mastering side of things.
"If you are depressed you are living in the past, if you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present"

KVRAF
3142 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Post Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:20 am

LeVzi wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:54 pm
I'm using the CLA Nx system with Toneboosters morphit, ...
Which one do you put first??
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KVRian
1137 posts since 23 Sep, 2004 from Kocmoc

Post Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:03 am

_leras wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:22 am
This is where I become a bit skeptical of this product. The headphones are apparently fairly plastics and might not last. I really can't see them being better than e.g some solid metal beyerdynamic dt1990. You do need a correction curve on dt1990 but the oratory curves work really well. dt1990 have a great bass also. And a really good starting sound.

Vsx have an advantage in that, to an extent, they just need a single correction curve for their one model.

It does sound like it.works as a system though, and their room models sound interesting. I've been using Waves Nx as room models and think these are actually great, especially their ocean way.
Well, I havent heard any headphone I've ever used do those deep subs so precisely. I havent used DT1990 though.

Not something a simple EQ curve can do I believe...
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User avatar
KVRian
918 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:47 pm

legendCNCD wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:03 am
Well, I havent heard any headphone I've ever used do those deep subs so precisely. I havent used DT1990 though.

Not something a simple EQ curve can do I believe...
Well the dt.1990 are not perfect, but they do have a great dynamic response and capture all the transients very well. They have a fairly pronounced bump at about 8.5k that make every thing sound very detailed, but a EQ correction curve takes care of that for mixing. However they have a solid feeling metal housing and feel like they'll last a lifetime, I fully expect all parts could easily be replaced. These really are engineered for regular use and long life.

These slate ones have beryllium drivers so should also have a good transient response.

I did a search and the focal utopia also have beryllium drivers, so they're in good company.

Also came across these, which look like they may be the same model? Retailed at $199 but do have what seems to be a very flat curve which should be simple to correct.
[url]https://rbhsound.com/hp2.php[\url]

For me, I think I couldn't justify the price, when I have a.good EQ curve to correct the dt1990 and I'm really happy with the different waves nx rooms.
Last edited by _leras on Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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KVRAF
3336 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:33 am

Trancit wrote:
Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:20 am
LeVzi wrote:
Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:54 pm
I'm using the CLA Nx system with Toneboosters morphit, ...
Which one do you put first??

I put CLA Nx first, on the advice of TB.
"If you are depressed you are living in the past, if you are anxious you are living in the future. If you are at peace, you are living in the present"

KVRAF
3142 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Post Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:37 am

LeVzi wrote:
Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:33 am
I put CLA Nx first, on the advice of TB.
Thx... it was a silly question though... :D
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KVRAF
2388 posts since 26 Mar, 2002 from london

Post Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:08 am

For those that have used a variety of these from different companies, how much variation is there in the headphone eq correction curves?
Every day takes figuring out all over again how to f#ckin’ live.

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KVRian
918 posts since 20 Apr, 2005

Post Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:01 pm

chagzuki wrote:
Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:08 am
For those that have used a variety of these from different companies, how much variation is there in the headphone eq correction curves?
I think there are a few different factors:
-people measure the headphones differently
-some aim for 'flat', some aim for an 'ideal headphone response' and some for matching an 'ideal room curve'

I don't have any exact things to share, but I know the sonarworks curves look quite different from the oratory eq correction curve.

I think at a certain stage you get close enough and then you just need to listen to music with what you have, to calibrate yourself and your perception of what you hear. Ideally you find something natural and flat enough that things just sounds how you expect them to hear, but accurately with no unexpected 8db dips or peaks.

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