KVR Audio

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:46 pm

I made the relation of peak and average levels pretty clear in the long technical post on page 2

MyKill · Post by **MyKill** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 7:42 pm

Compyfox wrote:I made the relation of peak and average levels pretty clear in the long technical post on page 2

Yes you did. It's a lot of info to take in at once, and maybe I just missed that part or thought of a question later that was already answered. Thanks for your time and patience

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:19 am

This of course is all terribly complicated and you can't jump into it expecting to apply it all at once. You need to take it in steps and allow your knowledge to evolve slowly. Solve problems as you're faced with. Don't invent problems for yourself!

Everyone seems to be replying to your posts by repeating a couple facts:

- No, there is no strict standard for anything because the material we're dealing with is so variable
- Focus on what you need to do first, then worry about how to do it, don't do this in reverse or you'll get nowhere!

Mixed in with lots of potentially useful information of course but if you can't accept these two facts nobody can help you.

MyKill · Post by **MyKill** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:46 pm

aciddose wrote:This of course is all terribly complicated and you can't jump into it expecting to apply it all at once. You need to take it in steps and allow your knowledge to evolve slowly.

Yes, I agree. The problem is I'm on a deadline. After following some of the principals I've learned here, my mix just started to get better. Obviously, there is no one tip that will be the magic pill, but there was an immediate and noticeable improvement. I figured if a few well explained points made that much of a difference, i need to get a firm handle on all the principals involved... more is better, right?

So trying to process everything at once, I started just asking questions instead of testing myself. Note to everyone: If you have a question, go try it out yourself BEFORE you string together difficult, multi-layered questions: you might just figure some stuff out on your own.

I'm still going to post the results I talked about, its just a little busy around here right now.

MyKill · Post by **MyKill** » Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:10 am

I have no questions. Just posting what I said i would post.
This will probably be common knowledge to most, but a few things are new to me and I'm posting it just in case anyone else finds it useful. Before this thread, I had never touched the "Input Gain" knob in Cubase. You have 3 meter options if you right click the mixer, Input, Post Fader & Post Panner. This will give you 3 different readings. This is the results for all 3 settings. And before anyone asks, the Kick goes to a kick group with a parallel compressed, stereo version input to the group as well, thats why there's a stereo kick group

- Input signal is -4.8 dBFS
-Input Gain is turned down -10 , hi-lighted in red
-Pan Law is -3 dB
-VUMT meter is on the Kick channel, Insert 1 (pre-fader). It's dBFS reading is hi-lighted in green.
-Channel dBFS reading hi-lighted in yellow

I thought if you turned down "Input Gain", viewing the mixer meters as "Input" would reflect that gain change. It does not. Input is Input, period.

Post Fader will give the same reading for Inserts and channel meter

Post Panner will take the Pan Law into account, so your Insert reading will be 3dB higher than your channel meter, assuming its a centrally panned mono signal. Also, the level meter switches from a single bar to two bars to visualize the pan position

And that's it. No questions, and hopefully if anyone else was a little unsure of their readings, this will help out.
Now to mixing!

SASonlinemastering · Post by **SASonlinemastering** » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:15 am

Here is a useful article that you will find helpful regarding gain structure it covers some history and relates electrical levels in analogue equipment to the typical digital scaling of metering in a DAW. Towards the end it covers a little on optimizing gain structure for an analogue mixing console.

Understanding gain structure

cheers

SafeandSound Mastering
http://www.masteringmastering.co.uk/ana ... ering.html

Aubrey Lamont · Post by **Aubrey Lamont** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:54 pm

Lots of good discussion in here, but some of it seems complicated (at least for a noob like myself).

I feel like the process is pretty basic, but maybe I'm oversimplifying things?

For my current track, I've done the following:
1. Put VUMT on each channel.
2. Attenuate input signals so that the VUMT needle stays around 0.
3. Balance channel faders (originally at unity).

According to the VUMT on my master bus, my mix is around 1.5 vu and is peaking between 5.5 and 6 db.

Do I also attenuate the signal going into the master bus (using VUMT), or did I do it right already?

Compyfox · Post by **Compyfox** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:58 am

First let's declare what you mean by "Peaking"? Do you mean the VU "peaking" there, or the digital meter going to -5,5dBFS and -6dBFS?

If the VU on the mix bus (summing bus / master bus) is at 1,5VU, I call that okay-ish.

Else you understood the concept.
And it's really not that hard to understand...

Individual Channels:
Transient heavy material = -9dBFS digital peak
or
Bass intensive material = 0 VU / -18dBFS RMS

Summing Bus:
Ideally around 0 VU/-18dB RMS and -6dBFS digital peak maximum.

Can't get any simpler than this.

Aubrey Lamont · Post by **Aubrey Lamont** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:20 am

Compyfox wrote:First let's declare what you mean by "Peaking"? Do you mean the VU "peaking" there, or the digital meter going to -5,5dBFS and -6dBFS?

Digital meter.

If the VU on the mix bus (summing bus / master bus) is at 1,5VU, I call that okay-ish.

Else you understood the concept.
And it's really not that hard to understand...

Individual Channels:
Transient heavy material = -9dBFS digital peak
or
Bass intensive material = 0 VU / -18dBFS RMS

Summing Bus:
Ideally around 0 VU/-18dB RMS and -6dBFS digital peak maximum.

Can't get any simpler than this.

Thanks!

mementus · Post by **mementus** » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:42 pm

I don't know you, but I often have a kick, non clicky and bass intensive,
and a meter calibrated at 0VU = -18dbfs that displays both VU and dbfs peaks.

When the kick peaks at 0VU it peaks way higher than -18dbfs.
i.e. kick: 0VU peaks / -5.5 dbfs peaks. And it is bass intensive.
Pre compression/processing

padillac · Post by **padillac** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:06 pm

If you're on a deadline, I wouldn't sweat this stuff. Understanding it won't help you make the deadline, but obsessing over it could potentially break it for you. Do what you can, today.

Anyway, here's what works for me:

I set up a Hornet VU meter on each channel and hit auto gain. That defaults to 0 VU or -6 dB FS peak, whichever is lower. Then I balance my channels, pan, add any processing if needed. Then if I bus / group anything, I add the Hornet VU meter again and auto gain it. Point is that I'm always working with a starting source of 0 VU / -6 dB at the start of each channel.

Hornet actually just released a plugin that does the same thing, but uses LUFS instead of VU. The workflow would be basically the same, just the difference is each track would have a starting similar "apparent loudness" rather than "energy".

Bonus mixing tip: set your monitors at a sensible level (aka guess). Mix. If you run out of headroom, turn your monitor level up - you will naturally mix at a lower level so it's more comfortable to listen to, this giving yourself more headroom. If you end up with too much noise, turn the monitors down - you will mix a bit louder, further above the noise floor.

Proper Gain Structure & dbfs?