platinumears wrote:perhaps we could just make it the pants tool?
Why is timestretch so important for you people?
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- KVRAF
- 10815 posts since 26 Nov, 2004 from UK
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
Time stretch is just a rescue tool for composers, a musician is not going to be fussed because they would want the integrity of playing the thing for real. A descent engineer/ producer would only let the most trivial of parts be time stretched as the quality loss would be too much (no matter what algorithm).
This whole time stretch thing is only for the DJ / ableton live folk.
I think I'd find it quite handy for FX though.
This whole time stretch thing is only for the DJ / ableton live folk.
I think I'd find it quite handy for FX though.
Last edited by Mr. Tingle on Thu Mar 17, 2005 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
I agree with haydxn. Try reading the post again, and you'll see that in some situations, it's your ONLY option!
A "real musician" will serve the song, not some sort of bizarre sense of pride. And if the song calls for modification that only timestretching can provide, then so be it.
A "real musician" will serve the song, not some sort of bizarre sense of pride. And if the song calls for modification that only timestretching can provide, then so be it.
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- KVRAF
- 5782 posts since 10 Mar, 2003 from Music Shed #8
i have briefly suspended my kvr abstinence, purely to say that this is probably one of the best ideas i've read on this board for a long llllloooonnnngggg time.platinumears wrote:perhaps we could just make it the pants tool?
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
For the occasional tweek I can understand the need for a timestretch function, I really can't see anyone using it on any major work and thinking it's going to be taken seriously.
I'm not a fan of calculators in maths lessions either. So now you know where I'm coming from! [unless of course you can already add, subtract and divide]
Lunch- I knew we'd disagree eventually! For most musicians I know they would simply punch in and redo a part, a little old fashioned I know but fairly painless.
I'm not a fan of calculators in maths lessions either. So now you know where I'm coming from! [unless of course you can already add, subtract and divide]
Lunch- I knew we'd disagree eventually! For most musicians I know they would simply punch in and redo a part, a little old fashioned I know but fairly painless.
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
Also if you look at the way Jules has written Tracktion, it would seem he's in favour of fast work flow and encouraging 'listening' these things are excellent for the musically minded. The mixer/ visual paradigm and time stretch have been left hanging, why? who knows for sure but maybe its because they are not that important.
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- KVRist
- 52 posts since 26 Aug, 2003
Wouldn't pretty much the same algorithm be used for both pitch shift and time stretch? Isn't it basically the same thing with a different constant?
I could see the need for both. I tried to use the time stretch once when I had a clip I wanted to use in three places in the song. The timing of one place was just enough different that is didn't fit right. A hair of time stretch would have done the trick but when I tried it it changed the sound to much. I ended up rerecording that clip 3 times because the new clip didn't sound like the old ones. A little stretch could have gone a long way.
The other place that time stretch is an everyday tool is for voiceovers when you need to make 35 seconds of naration fit in a 30 second spot (I know, that is shrinking).
I would like a good pitch shift as well. I like what Thomas Dolby used to do when he would change the pitch of his voice to give it a different quality for different parts. You can't use any pitch shift at all without seriously changing the quality.
Not everyone will have the need for pitch shift and time stretch but it has become a standard feature and therefore deserves to be done right. I don't think T2 should be delayed for it but a commitment to make it an update should be stated.
I could see the need for both. I tried to use the time stretch once when I had a clip I wanted to use in three places in the song. The timing of one place was just enough different that is didn't fit right. A hair of time stretch would have done the trick but when I tried it it changed the sound to much. I ended up rerecording that clip 3 times because the new clip didn't sound like the old ones. A little stretch could have gone a long way.
The other place that time stretch is an everyday tool is for voiceovers when you need to make 35 seconds of naration fit in a 30 second spot (I know, that is shrinking).
I would like a good pitch shift as well. I like what Thomas Dolby used to do when he would change the pitch of his voice to give it a different quality for different parts. You can't use any pitch shift at all without seriously changing the quality.
Not everyone will have the need for pitch shift and time stretch but it has become a standard feature and therefore deserves to be done right. I don't think T2 should be delayed for it but a commitment to make it an update should be stated.
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- KVRist
- 453 posts since 10 Jul, 2003 from Rotterdam
way to make blanket generalisationsTingle wrote:Time stretch is just a rescue tool for composers, a musician is not going to be fussed because they would want the integrity of playing the thing for real. A descent engineer/ producer would only let the most trivial of parts be time stretched as the quality loss would be too much (no matter what algorithm).
This whole time stretch thing is only for the DJ / ableton live folk.
consider this: some people use processes like timestretch (reverse, pitch envelopes) as core compositional techniques.
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
yep, I enjoyed that one.cbit wrote:way to make blanket generalisationsTingle wrote:Time stretch is just a rescue tool for composers, a musician is not going to be fussed because they would want the integrity of playing the thing for real. A descent engineer/ producer would only let the most trivial of parts be time stretched as the quality loss would be too much (no matter what algorithm).
This whole time stretch thing is only for the DJ / ableton live folk.
consider this: some people use processes like timestretch (reverse, pitch envelopes) as core compositional techniques.
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- KVRAF
- 12977 posts since 29 Sep, 2003 from Ottawa, Canada
Tingle - eventually people must disagree. 
*I* just re-do my audio parts, because I have that luxury. But there are situations in which it's not possible. I think you'd be surprised at how useful it can be in a professional environment.
You and I may be old fashioned and prefer a punch-in, but that doesn't negate its usefulness in certain circumstances, or take away from the fact that it's a core compositional tool for certain kinds of music.
As for me, I could live without timestretch for a while, but I'd like timeline beatslice.
Greg
*I* just re-do my audio parts, because I have that luxury. But there are situations in which it's not possible. I think you'd be surprised at how useful it can be in a professional environment.
You and I may be old fashioned and prefer a punch-in, but that doesn't negate its usefulness in certain circumstances, or take away from the fact that it's a core compositional tool for certain kinds of music.
As for me, I could live without timestretch for a while, but I'd like timeline beatslice.
Greg
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- KVRAF
- 4908 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
Tingle,Tingle wrote:Time stretch is just a rescue tool for composers, a musician is not going to be fussed because they would want the integrity of playing the thing for real. A descent engineer/ producer would only let the most trivial of parts be time stretched as the quality loss would be too much (no matter what algorithm).
This whole time stretch thing is only for the DJ / ableton live folk.
I think I'd find it quite handy for FX though.
Sorry mate, you have it all wrong. A good time stretch or beat slice that is useful (Slicing in T is only half there - it's still missing a group and loop clips feature to be truly useful).
I do mostly acoustic folk rock. I'm a guitarist and a keyboard player. I'm not a percussionist nor drummer. I still consider myself to be a real musician, even though I use loops. Loops are an absolute godsend to someone who cannot program a realistic acoustic drum track via midi - this is nearly impossible without spending a huge amount of time. I want to spend my time recording what I know how to play, not messing around programming midi drum tracks that sound like crap anyways - or trying to record an acoustic kit in my room here that has a 7' ceiling!!!
Loops are for everyone, not just DJs and dance music dudes.
-Scott
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- KVRAF
- 4908 posts since 10 Aug, 2004 from Colorado Springs
You got this wrong also. Time and pitch stretch were not left hanging - they were advertised features of T1 - but they turned out to be pretty useless to preserve quality. I think that's what has so many upset with the fact that T2 supposedly doesn't change it. It was advertised in T1 and it left the users hanging.Tingle wrote:Also if you look at the way Jules has written Tracktion, it would seem he's in favour of fast work flow and encouraging 'listening' these things are excellent for the musically minded. The mixer/ visual paradigm and time stretch have been left hanging, why? who knows for sure but maybe its because they are not that important.
T's timestretch is fairly useful for mangling the sound, but that is not a normal use for time stretch. Just ask anyone who has used ACID for years - most of the time they time stretch to change tempo of loops, not to intentionally make the loop sound crap.
-Scott
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- KVRAF
- 2009 posts since 9 Apr, 2003 from Cornwall, UK
True, but I was thinking mainly about stretching melodic parts, beats are some what different.