Tracktion Software

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:39 am

<edit>

beneath me!

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:41 am

valley wrote:
tkmattson wrote:It's (ST SE) even supposed to be included as a free plug with T2 - didn't anybody notice/check this problem?
Not me, we weren't given the plugs to beta test (the tight buggers).

You never did answer my half question in the vst compatibilty thread: are you using mac or PC, and does render at 1x make any difference for you?

OSX, and render at 1X didn't make a difference, it was all in scooting the beginning of the song over.

valley · Post by **valley** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:42 am

thank you plat, that was getting me close to locking this thread...

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:50 am

valley wrote:
tkmattson wrote: If you can't be arsed to not be an arse, then I don't have to be an arse and buy this (somewhat non-functional) product, do I?
Ermm - plat doesn't actually work for Mackie, so that's not really a threat.

Geez, if it's you they're depending on to get problems right, and you won't even read the problems thread....well, there you have it.
Whilst obviously if we notice problems with specific plugins we would report them, the beta testers were not specced to test any plugins other than the Mackie/Acuma ones, neither were we provided with them. Platinum is under no obligation, either personally or contractually to hunt for compatibility issues between Tracktion and 3rd party plugins.

If my wife lets me have a fewhours to test things, and after I checked some stuff out for kL, I'll take a look at rendering as you described. If I can replicate and document the bug I'll pass it on.

I just thought, of all the possible bug fixes, that this was on the VERY top of the list, as that 12 page thread (reader's digest version) lists ALL of the VSTi's that had/have this exact problem with T1.6. That thread was started by Jules, who requested that all problems be disclosed. Would it not seem to you that if such a problem existed, and was widely reported, with some of the more widely used VSTi's that would be the FIRST place one would start on an upgrade? Just baffling to me that it sounds like it wasn't. Shame really, because outside of the problem, and erm, the talking to I'm getting on this thread, I like the program. Wasn't aware you didn't get accompanying VST's, at the very least they should supply the ones they're planning on giving out with it.....sure would make your job a whole lot easier.

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 1:59 am

For what its worth (I'm using XP) I've rendered several tests now: the problem is consistent, it only occurs when the note is at the very start of the clip, and the clip starts within the first half bar (approx). Moving the note in by one tick always cures the problem. The problem seems to be the same for rendering and exporting.

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:14 am

platinumears wrote:For what its worth (I'm using XP) I've rendered several tests now: the problem is consistent, it only occurs when the note is at the very start of the clip, and the clip starts within the first half bar (approx). Moving the note in by one tick always cures the problem. The problem seems to be the same for rendering and exporting.

It's the exact same as T1.6, bummer. Look, I don't mean to cause any bad blood with you or Valley whatsover, and do truly appreciate the efforts you are making to identify the problem. All I'm saying is, there are going to be a bunch of disappointed people if they get their brand new T2 home, and their albiet free (as in came along with T2) plugs don't work. I'm just guessing that such a problem would pretty much cancel out any Quicktime capability T2 would have for scoring, that is unless you can bump the video the same amount as well. For myself, and most likely many others this stuck note issue is not just a problem, but a PROBLEM, one that is big enough to say, well maybe next time, T3. I think making sure this problem got back to the top of the list would be quite possibly the best thing you could do as a beta tester, as it ain't just me that's had this problem....

IIRs · Post by **IIRs** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:21 am

tkmattson wrote: I'm just guessing that such a problem would pretty much cancel out any Quicktime capability T2 would have for scoring, that is unless you can bump the video the same amount as well. For myself, and most likely many others this stuck note issue is not just a problem, but a PROBLEM,

I think maybe you misunderstand me: I cured the problem by moving the first note by one tick!

Thats surely not a show-stopper is it? One measly little tick?

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:31 am

platinumears wrote:
tkmattson wrote: I'm just guessing that such a problem would pretty much cancel out any Quicktime capability T2 would have for scoring, that is unless you can bump the video the same amount as well. For myself, and most likely many others this stuck note issue is not just a problem, but a PROBLEM,

I think maybe you misunderstand me: I cured the problem by moving the first note by one tick!

Thats surely not a show-stopper is it? One measly little tick?

If you're trying to line up with film or video, yeah, it can be (a show stopper) actually. Still, my question is why have to have a workaround for something that should work right in the first place? It seems like it should have been a simple thing to fix in the first place, so why not, as a beta tester, recommend to them that they fix it? It makes more sense than recommending to end user that they work around it, doesn't it?

braj · Post by **braj** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:33 am

I'm curious: did you beta testers get access to the bug database and enter bugs directly? Did they have you use a standard template?

ModuLR · Post by **ModuLR** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:51 am

tkmattson wrote:If you're trying to line up with film or video, yeah, it can be (a show stopper) actually. Still, my question is why have to have a workaround for something that should work right in the first place? It seems like it should have been a simple thing to fix in the first place, so why not, as a beta tester, recommend to them that they fix it? It makes more sense than recommending to end user that they work around it, doesn't it?

The dropped first note bug was NOT overlooked. The reason I know this is because I wrote it up in my bug report (others probably did as well). I've kept a journal, and can even give you the date of the report. It is definately in their bug database. I think what this demonstrates is that the problem is deeply internal. Jules didn't just glance over this and ignore it. It's just that it's a bit harder to fix than it looks. Sure anyone can sit back and make assumptions that something so basic is easy to remedy, but often times when you get down on the code level, things take on a totally different perspective. Much like, Cakewalk's gapless audio didn't just happen in a version update. Things can be much more difficult than you think.

tkmattson · Post by **tkmattson** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:07 am

ModuLR wrote:
tkmattson wrote:If you're trying to line up with film or video, yeah, it can be (a show stopper) actually. Still, my question is why have to have a workaround for something that should work right in the first place? It seems like it should have been a simple thing to fix in the first place, so why not, as a beta tester, recommend to them that they fix it? It makes more sense than recommending to end user that they work around it, doesn't it?
The dropped first note bug was NOT overlooked. The reason I know this is because I wrote it up in my bug report (others probably did as well). I've kept a journal, and can even give you the date of the report. It is definately in their bug database. I think what this demonstrates is that the problem is deeply internal. Jules didn't just glance over this and ignore it. It's just that it's a bit harder to fix than it looks. Sure anyone can sit back and make assumptions that something so basic is easy to remedy, but often times when you get down on the code level, things take on a totally different perspective. Much like, Cakewalk's gapless audio didn't just happen in a version update. Things can be much more difficult than you think.

Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

nuisance sonore · Post by **nuisance sonore** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:18 am

tkmattson wrote:
Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

Probably because, as platinumears pointed out, it's not a show stopper and as ModuLR said, probably difficult to fix. If you start your music on bar 2 or 3 like I do, you'll never notice it. It's just bad for the unsuspecting one who might loose an incredible amount of time trying to figure the problem out, so I'm of the opinion that it should be in the "known issues" on the Tracktion info page somewhere or a FAQ or something.

ModuLR · Post by **ModuLR** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:24 am

I think as a whole, people will find T2 *incredibly* stable, and actually quite an accomplishment for a v2 release.

valley · Post by **valley** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:28 am

tkmattson wrote: Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

You're a Mac[1] user so I'll forgive you that question...

All software has bugs. They are truly unavoidable for any seriously sized development. The idea that you can hold back software until every bug has been found and eliminated is naive. Commercial pressures and simple common sense declare that at some point you have to say "OK, this is as good as it is getting for now."

I don't think that this particular annoyance is being ignored, but I imagine it is non-trivial to fix, simply because if it weren't, it would have been fixed. That's not to say it doesn't matter, just it isn't a show-stoppper, and fixing it may take a little time.

[1] Somehow Jobs has you all convinced that OSX is entirely bug free - Gates is nowehere near that charismatic, and we are all far too jaded anyway.

valley · Post by **valley** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 3:30 am

braj wrote:I'm curious: did you beta testers get access to the bug database and enter bugs directly? Did they have you use a standard template?

Remember beta-testers are under an NDA - that's a little bit of an unfair question.

Tracktion Software

KVR Audio

Is the stuck first note issue resolved or not?