Is the stuck first note issue resolved or not?

[valley]

Shame really, because outside of the problem, and erm, the talking to I'm getting on this thread, I like the program.

Talking to? I take it you've never visited loop-talk?

Wasn't aware you didn't get accompanying VST's, at the very least they should supply the ones they're planning on giving out with it.....sure would make your job a whole lot easier.

That'd be tough though given that they hadn't negotiated which plugins would be included at that point.

I'm not sure if the list is finalised even yet, for that matter.

[christianmusicmaker]

Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

All software has bugs. They are truly unavoidable for any seriously sized development. The idea that you can hold back software until every bug has been found and eliminated is naive. Commercial pressures and simple common sense declare that at some point you have to say "OK, this is as good as it is getting for now."

Good points valley but Reason is an example (for me anyway) of a bug free environment *with* commercial pressures. I appreciate they may have more developers at their disposal but they took just as long roughly anyway from Reason 2 - 3 as Tracktion took from T1 - T2.

FWIW I think Jules is highly unlikely to have ignored it and will adress it somehow in a future release. He has always been very helpful when emailed and I would imagine he already has a set time to deal with it.

I am pretty sure neither he nor Mackie would want a minor or major bug to spoil the T2 show.

[IIRs]

Good points valley but Reason is an example (for me anyway) of a bug free environment *with* commercial pressures.

But without 3rd party plug-in support: this problem only occurs with specific third party plugs..

[valley]

Good points valley but Reason is an example (for me anyway) of a bug free environment *with* commercial pressures.

Reason *is* remarkably bug free. I would have to say it is probably one of the most solid pieces of development I have seen (and not just in the audio soft world). I doubt very much that it is bug free though. Even with techniques such as extreme programming for high grade QA, >200,000[1] lines of code is going to have bugs. The odds are just too heavily stacked against it.

[1] I can squeeze an average of a bug for every 20 lines of code on a really bad day[2].

[2] Good days being defined as those days I spend eliminating the bugs I created on bad days. When you get right down to it, this is a poor excuse for a good day, so probably all of them are bad.

[christianmusicmaker]

Good points valley but Reason is an example (for me anyway) of a bug free environment *with* commercial pressures.

But without 3rd party plug-in support: this problem only occurs with specific third party plugs..

True.

Valley wrote:I doubt very much that it is bug free though.

Well, I think they have a relatively small team at props Hq, certainly more heads than Jules though, so if anything for a solo effort (Phillip figures in this somewhere as well I think) T2 is still quite an acheivement.

[djsubject]

BTW you can test your vsti's for this bug by using the freeze track option in the T2 demo

[koolkeys]

Reason is far from bug-free. While VERY stable, it doesn't have to work with anything outside itself, but only the internal, native devices. And just go take a look at the Propellerheads forum. There are PLENTY of bugs being reported there for the new version 3. I use version 3, and love it. But it isn't perfect.

Koolkeys

[valley]

BTW you can test your vsti's for this bug by using the freeze track option in the T2 demo

well it's a good job one of us is awake...

good call that man!

[tkmattson]

Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

Probably because, as platinumears pointed out, it's not a show stopper and as ModuLR said, probably difficult to fix. If you start your music on bar 2 or 3 like I do, you'll never notice it. It's just bad for the unsuspecting one who might loose an incredible amount of time trying to figure the problem out, so I'm of the opinion that it should be in the "known issues" on the Tracktion info page somewhere or a FAQ or something.

That's fine if you're just making a tune, but if you're soundtrack scoring, and start on bar one or two, or even one tick later, and you can't somehow bump the video the same amount, the Quicktime feature then becomes useless. It (the render issue) was in the known issues thread that was sticky'd, & actually for the most part, it WAS the thread, the single biggest problem people seemed to have with Tracktion across the board. Unfortunately, the thread is no longer sticky'd....

[tkmattson]

Good to know that it has been reported. I have to ask though, although rhetorically, why is T2 coming out then?

You're a Mac[1] user so I'll forgive you that question...

All software has bugs. They are truly unavoidable for any seriously sized development. The idea that you can hold back software until every bug has been found and eliminated is naive. Commercial pressures and simple common sense declare that at some point you have to say "OK, this is as good as it is getting for now."

I don't think that this particular annoyance is being ignored, but I imagine it is non-trivial to fix, simply because if it weren't, it would have been fixed. That's not to say it doesn't matter, just it isn't a show-stoppper, and fixing it may take a little time.

[1] Somehow Jobs has you all convinced that OSX is entirely bug free - Gates is nowehere near that charismatic, and we are all far too jaded anyway.

I will make a prediction. This will be the single highest reported bug of T2, seeing as how it seems that it effected, in one way or another, the entire user base of T1.6, and wasn't fixed. While you personally may consider it trivial, many folks, myself included obviously, consider this to be something that should most certainly work right, and not something I, as an end user, should have to work around. It's like buying a bicycle, and getting it home and finding out the brakes don't work. You let the manufacturer know that there's a problem, find out the problem is widespread, but the response is, "Well, you can jump off the bike, or use your feet to stop, can't you?" instead of just fixing it. Well, yeah, I can jump off, but I paid for brakes. In this case, I haven't bought it yet, and based on this ommission probably won't, but you get the picture. (insert mental image of me jumping off a bicycle into a thorn bush here) Do understand I'm not here trying to diss on T2, I just want it to work right, that's all. If this is a trivial problem, what were the big ones - just curious if you can divulge at all (completely understand if you can't due to NDA)....

[tkmattson]

Shame really, because outside of the problem, and erm, the talking to I'm getting on this thread, I like the program.

Talking to? I take it you've never visited loop-talk?

Nah. Only have time enough to visit one place.

Wasn't aware you didn't get accompanying VST's, at the very least they should supply the ones they're planning on giving out with it.....sure would make your job a whole lot easier.

That'd be tough though given that they hadn't negotiated which plugins would be included at that point.

I'm not sure if the list is finalised even yet, for that matter.

Yeah, but there are the likely candidates, all of which offer demos or limited versions. Just think it would have been a wise method to make sure you guys tried at least those VSTi's under consideration....maybe next time?

[IIRs]

That's fine if you're just making a tune, but if you're soundtrack scoring, and start on bar one or two, or even one tick later, and you can't somehow bump the video the same amount, the Quicktime feature then becomes useless.

Do you actually know how long 1 tick is? 1/960th of a beat!

I simply do not believe that the soundtrack starting a milisecond late will mean re-editing the video.. and if it did, you have the option to move the clip a bar in, render, and move the result back.. or add a bar of silence to all tracks (which also moves automation in T2) which can be removed from the rendered file.. or simply use a plug that doesn't cause the problem.

While I am sure that this will eventually be resolved, it is a minor issue that can be easily worked around in a variety of ways, and no amount of whining from you will convince me otherwise..

[tkmattson]

While I am sure that this will eventually be resolved, it is a minor issue that can be easily worked around in a variety of ways, and no amount of whining from you will convince me otherwise..

Ahem. What may be a minor issue to you, is not worth $150+ to me, at least until it's fixed. Thanks for your help in identifying that the problem is still there. I won't continue on this issue, I just won't be buying. I do guarantee this is not the last time this issue will be brought up, and next time it won't be me.

[djsubject]

good good

[semiquaver]

Why not have T move MIDI notes from tick 1 to tick 2 automatically? couldn't take long to code!