CSR-1 - Lexicon300 - Comparison

[bduffy]

Another thing to consider is that other types of h/w are not thoroughly captured by impulse responses either. For instance, tube coloration that happens dynamically (i.e. "warmth" created by dynamic harmonic coloration) can't be recreated by static impulses, though I've heard there is such a thing as dynamic convolution.

Isn't that what TriTone Digital's stuff does?

[kmonkey]

Hm...

From all threads here, when you sum all things all subjective and objective opinions it seems that guys from ArtsAcoustic somehow manage to done fantastic job with their flagship ArtsAcoustic Reverb. In all rounds.


It is not pretended to be "i am in lexicon bandvagon" fancy nonsense and it have specific sound character. Realy realy goood character

It is a bit expensive to "bedroom" musicians but it will give alot for price. Copy protection scheme is without famous dongle(it is only serial number), "fair use" license policy, fantastic sound which work wonders in a mix, not so hard on CPU and great GUI. And YOU CAN TRY A DEMO!!!!

I am looking forward to buy this. My only wishes is maybe true plate algorithm(though you can get similar character) and maybe volume envelope (like that on Masterverb)

Ehh...just my two $...sorry for bad typing....

[diverdee]

Not to hijack, but I agree Kmonkey - right now AA is the only one i'd consider buying.
I'd like to play with a demo of CSR (non-dongle only, if possible) - but it would have to be fewkin amazing & actually trash AA to justify the 140 euro higher price tag.
That is before taking into account my attitude on dongles.

[Sickle]

So does anybody own CSR?

I do, but it's not here yet; it was shipped this afternoon.

Thanks, Sickle. hey, I just realised I qualify for a $50 discount because of the OEM stuff that came with my E-MU 1212m...SWEET!!!

What OEM stuff for 1212m are you talking about? They must have changed the bundle since I got mine..

Sorry, I didn't see this. With the E-MU I got the T-Racks EQ and Amplitube LE. Pretty frickin' decent, if you ask me. You didn't get that with yours??

Hell no, I got some crap like Cubasis4, wavelab lite, and SFX Machine lite or some garbage like that..

[living sounds]

Are impulse responses as good as the real thing? No, they're not. The modulation does indeed add a lot to the classic sound, but there's more than this: If you turn Spin and Wander to 0 (= switch of modulation), create an impulse response and send a sample through both the hardware and a convolution plugin, the real unit still sounds better. It's probably not that obvious for many, but the bass sounds a lot more defined, punchier and the highs are more pleasant, clearer (which means that transient response is obviously better) - there is some degration of sound due to convolution. Turn on the modulation again, and the hardware sounds a lot less smeared than the impulse. In the context of a mix, the added clarity combines to an audibly more transparent, punchier sound.

As far as the sound examples are concerned: Could anyone just run them trough the CSR and post screenshots anyway? I'm aware that the settings won't match, but it'll be a lot easier to adjust the Lex300 accordingly.

Squish, thanks a lot for your offer of selling the CSR at that increadibly price. However, I really do not need it right now (two Lexicons in a mix DO suffice) - unless it's as good as a 480l. Still, I'm very interested in how it compares...

[dr. orange]

you have a Lexicon 300? Could you sample the original vs. IR one without modulation of the original?

[bmanic]

Are impulse responses as good as the real thing? No, they're not. The modulation does indeed add a lot to the classic sound, but there's more than this: If you turn Spin and Wander to 0 (= switch of modulation), create an impulse response and send a sample through both the hardware and a convolution plugin, the real unit still sounds better. It's probably not that obvious for many, but the bass sounds a lot more defined, punchier and the highs are more pleasant, clearer (which means that transient response is obviously better) - there is some degration of sound due to convolution. Turn on the modulation again, and the hardware sounds a lot less smeared than the impulse. In the context of a mix, the added clarity combines to an audibly more transparent, punchier sound.

This I would believe is more dependant on what IR Reverb engine you use. For instance, pristine space from voxengo sounds different to SIR and Waves IR reverb sounds still different. They all use slightly different methods of playing back those impulses. None of them I think is pure brute force (which would then theoretically sound identical as long as the original is also in a truly static mode).

The thing that interests me more about algo reverbs versus IR reverbs is that I find the algo reverbs somehow blend better into a mix. They become a part of the mix instead of a layer that is added in the background. Anybody else noticed this? It's especially obvious if you are mixing modern pop/dance tunes that are extremely dry sounding to begin with. Here I've totally failed to use impulses and rely nearly 100% on my AA reverb. I noticed this thing the first time when I was mixing a silly rock project in the university and switched from Altiverb to a Lexicon PCM 91. There was a difference in how the reverb was geeling with the mix. I'll investigate this further for sure as it interests me quite a bit!

Cheers!
bManic

[dr. orange]

What is an AA reverb?

and your lower part totally contradicts the upper one...

[echopark]

What is an AA reverb?

The arts acoustic reverb

Look at artsacoustic.com

[bduffy]

So does anybody own CSR?

I do, but it's not here yet; it was shipped this afternoon.

Thanks, Sickle. hey, I just realised I qualify for a $50 discount because of the OEM stuff that came with my E-MU 1212m...SWEET!!!

What OEM stuff for 1212m are you talking about? They must have changed the bundle since I got mine..

Sorry, I didn't see this. With the E-MU I got the T-Racks EQ and Amplitube LE. Pretty frickin' decent, if you ask me. You didn't get that with yours??

Hell no, I got some crap like Cubasis4, wavelab lite, and SFX Machine lite or some garbage like that..

That's weird...I got all that crap too, and the IK stuff. Maybe check your CD's again?

I'm glad some people mentioned the Arts Acoustic reverb; it doesn't try to be anything other than a great digital reverb, which it is. The best available (barring CSR demos), IMHO.

[JeffSanders]

I'll be shocked and amazed if the CSR is better than the AAR verb.

The Arts Acoustic blows all the others away. imho And like others said, it doesn't try to be hardware or fool you with a fancy rackmount gui into thinking it sounds better than it does. It just sounds beautiful. imho

[Sickle]

Hell no, I got some crap like Cubasis4, wavelab lite, and SFX Machine lite or some garbage like that..

That's weird...I got all that crap too, and the IK stuff. Maybe check your CD's again?

I'm glad some people mentioned the Arts Acoustic reverb; it doesn't try to be anything other than a great digital reverb, which it is. The best available (barring CSR demos), IMHO.

I'm positive. I just ordered the audiodock upgrade and it comes bundled with...[wait for it...]...

CubaseVST 5!

[bduffy]

Hell no, I got some crap like Cubasis4, wavelab lite, and SFX Machine lite or some garbage like that..

That's weird...I got all that crap too, and the IK stuff. Maybe check your CD's again?

I'm glad some people mentioned the Arts Acoustic reverb; it doesn't try to be anything other than a great digital reverb, which it is. The best available (barring CSR demos), IMHO.

I'm positive. I just ordered the audiodock upgrade and it comes bundled with...[wait for it...]...

CubaseVST 5!

Hell yeah! I hear that's got ONE LEVEL OF UNDO!

Well, that's lame...that must be a US/UK thing...but IK is Italian! Who knows?

[bmanic]

Another thing to consider is that other types of h/w are not thoroughly captured by impulse responses either. For instance, tube coloration that happens dynamically (i.e. "warmth" created by dynamic harmonic coloration) can't be recreated by static impulses, though I've heard there is such a thing as dynamic convolution.

Isn't that what TriTone Digital's stuff does?

No, dynamic convolution is patented by Sintefex.

- bManic

[bduffy]

Another thing to consider is that other types of h/w are not thoroughly captured by impulse responses either. For instance, tube coloration that happens dynamically (i.e. "warmth" created by dynamic harmonic coloration) can't be recreated by static impulses, though I've heard there is such a thing as dynamic convolution.

Isn't that what TriTone Digital's stuff does?

No, dynamic convolution is patented by Sintefex.

- bManic

Right, I thought that sounded familiar.