Muton Beta 3

[jinnan_tonnix]

Serious bug with Mute function:
Create 8 tracks
When all 8 tracks are displayed on the same screen, the mute-track function works correctly. Clicking the green speaker mutes it to red, and vice versa.

But zoom in so not all tracks are visible.
The mute track function fails, and the rename track function is invoked instead.
Zooming out to a full view restores the function.
---

Further observations:
When track 1 is in view, the mute function works
When the composition window is scrolled such that track 1 is no longer in view, the mute function fails.

[jinnan_tonnix]

Need sleep now.
Jo, this software is excellent. I'm now working it hard for some projects (you can probably guess) and I really like using it. It's like a breath of fresh air, and even though my hardware belongs in a museum , its performance is fantastic. No noticable latency.

There's a few things I really want to see; I think I'm pushing my luck for release 1.0 but I'll mention them soon anyway.

[fycfung]

Hi Jo,
OK, I tried it on yet another computer, a Dell Inspiron 8600 running XP SP2 with a SigmaTel C-Major Audio on-board audio, ASIO4ALL 2.6. I turned on the hardware buffer and the "Always resample 44.1 KHz to 48 KHz". When I try running I can't get any VSTi's to run. When I try to create a new MIDI player, I get, under MIDI Ports, "None". On the plus side, the metronome is making a ticking noise, so I know something is getting through the sound card out to the other end. (I think that happened on another computer, so that's a positive sign.)

Is anyone else out there running on notebook Windows hardware and/or using ASIO4ALL? My inability to get this to work on 3 notebooks in a row under 4 different soundcards (each on-board one and the Audigy 2 ZS Notebook) under 3 sets of drivers (ASIO4ALL, kX, and Creative) can't be coincidental; either Muton is having some problem with notebook setups, or the plugins I'm using are uncooperative (the Computer Music set), or there's some setup step for ASIO4ALL and/or the drivers that I'm not doing right on all my machines (but note that FL Studio played fine under ASIO4ALL on one of my machines).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Best wishes,
Francis

[muzycian]

Bug1:
Start with a empty composition
Draw a sequence anywhere.
Do not choose a part type, but draw somewhere else on the composition window.
The grey boxes are not deleted, you can build up a load of grey boxes on the composition window with nothing in them.
Minising /restoring refreshes the screen correctly.

Yeah, i also noticed this one;

Fixed in beta 4!

Bug2:
Zoom vertically so that you can't fit all four tracks vertically without scrolling. i.e. you can see three tracks and half the fourth track.
Try and draw a sequence into the bottom track (track 4)
The draw function seems to draw the sequence into the track ABOVE the current cursor position. ie. into track 3 when trying to draw into track 4.
It's now impossible to draw into track 4.

In fact, if you choose the top track, the grey box is drawn in the transport area.
Zooming out does not fix it.

Thanks for pointing this out!

Fixed in beta 4.

[muzycian]

Live playing seems pretty good still except I'm now getting occasional glitching (i.e. the audio engine seems to freeze and I get noise out instead of what the synth I'm playing should be producing). It doesn't appear to relate to other system activity and doesn't happen under Muzys 3.14 (although I'm not using an identical effects chain -- so it could be one of the effects). Its as I'm getting CPU spikes.

Does the glitching also occurs without using any effects?

E.g. When only playing back an audiofile, containing a 60 second sine wave.
(then you can easily hear glicthes)

[muzycian]

When attempting to modify the length of a group of notes, the options available are Absolute, Relative & Procentual.
There's no option to cancel. Undo works, of course, but suggest a cancel button?

You're right. Added in beta 4.

Suggest changing the word "Procentual" to "Percent" as this is the more common term.

Is "Percentual" ok then?

File->New session and File->Open sesssion does not prompt you to save your work. You could lose work this way.

Ok, will be improved.

[muzycian]

Some effects (e.g. Kjaerhus Audio's Classic Delay) list their programs correctly in the program's list box. So clicking the list box will show programs like 'Old tape', 'Short Analog' and so on.

Other effects (like Endorphin and Freeverb Too) do not list their programs. Instead, they list Program1, Program2 etc. But clicking the left and right arrow to change the programs lists the program names correctly.

It seems that for some effects, the available program names are not listed in the program selector menu.

That's because some plugins don't support the Vst Opcode "effGetProgramNameIndexed".

They should!

There is a way to even support plugs that don't support this:

Select every single program of the plugin 1 by 1, and get the name.

But that's really a bad method because:

-> you could loose your current fx settings for the current program (plug-dependent)
-> collecting the names this way could take long as each program must be really selected
-> it could be that, during collecting of the names, you hear the switching of the programs

I really encourage all plugin developers to support effGetProgramNameIndexed.

It should be Very Simple to support that!

[muzycian]

OK, in my first attempt, I saw some really strange video glitching, which I've been able to reproduce.

What did you exactly see?

[muzycian]

In the list editor
a) the columns are initially too narrow - you can't see the values in the fields.
b) the value in "Length" is centred in the remaining space, rather than the space under the heading.

Will both be improved in beta 4.

c) I'm in two minds about whether Value 2 should be a Float or an Integer.

Good question.

Maybe using the known "0..127" range is better because people are more used to it.

I'll think it over.

d) I can't assign the Player for an event - should I be able to? (Neither the track nor the part had a player assigned.)

It's not yet supported now. Will be supported soon.

Eek, managed to crash it and lose the diagnostics. I was in the piano roll editor, changing the length of an existing note (having just set the player for the part).

Can't reproduce it now...

Let's keep an eye on it!

[muzycian]

1. Cursor defaults to pencil tool when it is over a part. I have to reselect the arrow cursor every time I want to select or move a part.

That's a feature!

At the beginning of a part/note, you get the pencil to change the start position.
In the middle you get the arrow to move the part/note.
At the end, you get the pencil to change the end of the part/note.

2. It looks like I have to load a VST synth or create a new midi player before I record midi or create a new midi part. Once the midi part is created there does not appear to be an obyious way to change the instrument for that part. You mention right clicking on parts for more options but many Mac users only have a one button mouse and I cannot find an equivalent keyboard shortcut.

True remark, will be improved!

3. I have had a few crashes loading midi files and also when trying out VST effects on an audio track.

Can you reproduce the crashes?
Do you have more specific details on when it crashes?
Which midifiles?
Which vst effects?

4. Took a while to figure out that the return button took me back from the sequence editer to the composer. Not sure that this is intuitive when you have to double-click on a part to perform the opposite function.

True remark, again.

Do you have a suggestion for how to quickly close the editor again?

And to quickly select another mouse tool?

5. Cannot find a way to delete a part.

Select the part(s) and press delete.

I agree that it should be analog in the composer and in the sequence editor.

So:

->Or the composer gets a gum tool
->Or the Note editor looses the gum tool => deleting notes is done by selecting the notes + press delete.

What would you prefer?

6. I really like the way you can have different midi/instrument combinations on the same track but If you combine midi and audio parts in the same track you only here the audio parts.

Are you sure about this?

Maybe the sequence part didn't have a player assigned?

For a part, there should be no difference on which track it is (except for the track mute)

[muzycian]

Hey Francis,

Thanks for all the tips, Jo! I confess I have still not figured it out. I tried ASIO4ALL on yet another computer, my Inspiron 700m, both with the ASIO kX drivers for my Audigy 2 ZS Notebook and with ASIO4ALL on top of kX, no luck. And I tried it with ASIO4ALL on my on-board sound, no luck. All three of those worked OK with, say, FL Studio.

Are you sure that you're using FL Studio with ASIO?

Maybe FL Studio makes sound thru the MME or Direct Sound drivers?

Go to FL Studio Options menu -> Audio settings and be sure to choose a ASIO driver there.

Do the ASIO drivers work for all reported configurations?

ASIO4ALL doesn't seem to give me any available MIDI players when I try to create one in Mutools.

ASIO4All has nothing to do with midi players.

If you want to use midi, you have to activate midi ports via Muton's Edit menu : Midi Setup.

But again, this has nothing to do with the audio setup.

ANd when I try with a VSTi I get silence. I haven't tried with an audio clip directly. When I had ASIO4ALL and kX for the Audigy, the play button would not work for ASIO4ALL, but it did move for the kX (but gave no sound). For on-board audio, the play button moved the bar for ASIO4ALL but no sound came out.

I'm sure you know that a sequence part needs a Player (e.g. a VSTI) to make sound, right?

Simply click the part; that will display it's player in the Player Panel at the top right in the interface. If it says "No Player" then right-click the part and "Choose Player".

Regarding the click-and-release to delete...

I'll try to come up with a method to delete notes with the arrow/pencil tool only.

[muzycian]

this one seems to have more trouble getting through my plugin directory than beta 2.

What trouble did you encounter?

how about a solo option?

Shift+click on a track mute.

(unsolo function will be added soon)

[muzycian]

Just an observation: it's great to read such a contructive thread here on KVR!
Keep it up

Yeah, i agree;

Thanks to everyone helping here to get Muton rock solid

[muzycian]

when you enable hotkeys, i guess itll be easier to just press 't' or something for toolkit or 'd' for duplicate part.

Hotkeys will be added soon.

is there a chance you could make the playback start position the same as the last place you put it manually? like i have to place the cursor at the 4th bar if i want playback to start from there. and if not all the time, is there a way to choose in what situation this
behavior would apply?

I know what you mean.

Such functionality will be added soon.

is the 2 send limit a muton free limitation?

Yes.

With Muton Unlimited, you can have an unlimited number of Send Strips

altogether a charming product. i cant wait for more cool stuff!

[/quote]

Thanks man!

[muzycian]

I can't find a quick way of 'unsoloing' the track - switching all tracks back on again with one click. Perhaps there's another keyboad-mouse combination I've missed?

No, it's not yet there, coming soon.