MU.LAB beta A

[jens]

Right -> on OSX.

Will fix this.

I'm on XP

But does it make sense to maximize it? As then you won't see the rackdesk window anymore?
.

alternatively you could ask: 'does it make sense that the rackdesk has got its own completely independend window?' I think it does, but mainly for multi-monitor setups - becasue then you could put it to a different screen than the main window - but then your argument against maximizing becomes invalid.

Perhaps it would be good if independend rackdesk-window was optional. With a single monitor I can't really see the advantage for me.

Do you know about the F1, F2, F3 function keys. They memorize the window positions for 3 states:

-> Composer Only
-> Composer + Rackdesk
-> Composer + MPA

Right, all three states have their individual position&size - which again renders your argument 'then you won't see the rackdesk window anymore' invalid (i.e. I could maximize the composer for F1 and still see the rackdesk as soon as I press F2.


Anyway: I really think there needs to be put some further thoughts into windows management

[pljones]

Mmm, bit more. So is anything meant to happen if I add two Voice In/Voice Out paths to a MuSynth patch? I was hoping to set up a stereo pair with different voice processing, a stereo combinator and a single audio out but only the left (panned by the first voice's amp) channel sounded. The second voice wasn't doing anything.

(The "Save" option on WFT Osc worked okay, by the way.)


Aha, I see my mistake. The stereo combinator takes care of the left/right pan. Pulling the right channel back to centre in the amp brought the level up.

[muzycian]

Just to throw a wide ball in... It still doesn't play nicely under Linux/WINE.

Linux/WINE is not (yet) officially supported.

The VST scan gets slower and slower as it progresses and audio playback just can't keep up.

Is that also under Linux/WINE?
If yes, please see above, sorry.

Maybe one day i'll take a look into linux.
But that's not yet for the short future.

[muzycian]

wow im very impressed with what you have done so far

heres a couple of bugs ive found:
1: osx sound doesnt play on the first opening..... or the second or third.... 4th time worked like a charm

Known issue, is being researched.

2: adding a MuVerb to my MuSynth somehow blocks the sound from the output

Do you know that if you use a MuVerb within a MuSynth patch, you have to plug it AFTER the Voice Output.

Otherwise it will indeed block the audio. As it is not a 'voiced plugin'.

Anything that is voice related, thus that can work independently for each voice, MUST be placed between Voice In and Voice Out.

This is simple, but important!

Otherwise it won't crash or so, but it just won't make sound.

Please see the patches in the demo as example.

3: after having trouble with #2, i tryed adding the Muverb to the rack that the Musynth was on, and the same thing happened. Although, reseting the track target to the musynth somehow fixed this problem, but not #2s problem. I also tryed adding a VST effect instead of the muverb to the rack, and it had the same problem, so it might not be a problem with Muverb itself.
now a couple hours later, i tried using the stereo splitter and combiner, same problem, cuts off the audio output.

Can you please email me a musession that demonstrates this blocking problem. Preferrably using internal plugs only, to avoid the prob that i don't have the same vsts as you.

[Bonteburg]

Can you please let me know your system details again. Thanks.

G4 400 PPC, OSX 10.3.9 , M-Audio Delta 2496.

I shall give it a try on my Mac Mini tonight too.

[muzycian]

Okay, docs need some working on... What's "AIPS" on a WFT Osc?

AddInvertedPhaseShift.

Simply put: with a saw, this causes Block PWM.

But it can be used with any waveform.

And it can be modulated! E.g. by an LFO.

If I add a MUX to a MuSynth between Voice In and Voice Out,

Not working.

The MUX is not a voiced plugin, and thus must be placed AFTER the Voice Out.

In fact it's simple: everything that is in the Voiced Plugins group can be placed between Voice In and Out. All other plugins must be placed after Voice Out, otherwise you won't hear anything.

Oh damn, now i see, the plugins are not in subgroups, so it's difficult to know which ones are 'voiced plugs' and which ones are not.

This is definitely something to be finetuned.

Ok, for now, note that these plugins are voiced plugs:

Stereo Splitter
Stereo Combinor
Wft Oscillator
Noise Generator
MM Filter
Ring Modulator
Amplifier
Audio Balancer
ADSR
LFO
Modulation Value Mapper
Wobble Generator

(updating the docs about this)

I lose the audio (whereas putting a MMFilter in the same place is okay). Mono Echo (Short or Long) and AllPass Filter break the audio path. After Voice Out, they all seem to be okay.

Yep, this is normal. Cfr explanation above.

I guess that, unless you have a separate MPA for editing the Voice, it's tricky to identify on the menu which components can go where. Would having a "Voice" component, with its own MPA (and built in Voice In and Voice Out plugins) be a bad idea?

I'll think about a way to make clear which plugs are voiced and which aren't.

But they'll be in 1 MPA.

[muzycian]

wow im very impressed with what you have done so far

heres a couple of bugs ive found:
1: osx sound doesnt play on the first opening..... or the second or third.... 4th time worked like a charm
2: adding a MuVerb to my MuSynth somehow blocks the sound from the output
3: after having trouble with #2, i tryed adding the Muverb to the rack that the Musynth was on, and the same thing happened. Although, reseting the track target to the musynth somehow fixed this problem, but not #2s problem. I also tryed adding a VST effect instead of the muverb to the rack, and it had the same problem, so it might not be a problem with Muverb itself.

now a couple hours later, i tried using the stereo splitter and combiner, same problem, cuts off the audio output.

I cant wait for a stable release!! Im finally starting to see why i would use this host over other hosts

ok, i might have just fixed my problem... I was adding the muverb before the Voice Out..... now i added it after and it works fine... still doesnt explain the rack effects problem

Please try to repeat it in the rack situation, then email me the musession file.

Maybe the rack problem was related with the reverb-within-voice problem?

[muzycian]

The MuSynth MPA can't be resized on Windows, as far as I can tell.

Indeed. It's fixed-size for now because it's a plug window. Taken note about tuning this.

The F3 MPA can (and has a Maximise button).

Yes, and it works on Windows.

Isn't yet working on osx, but will work in beta B.

The F3 MPA has it's own Windows Task Bar button, whereas the MuSynth MPA doesn't (it appears when the MU.LAB task bar button is selected).

Indeed, it are different types of windows.

I'll first focus on the most urgent fixes and tunings.
Then in further beta phase, i'll focus on fine tunings like this.

[pljones]

Is there a way to patch Pitch Bend to the WFT?

It's fixed-size for now because it's a plug window. Taken note about tuning this.

Ah, right, makes sense... but would be nice to have fixed .

[muzycian]

Right -> on OSX.

Will fix this.

I'm on XP

The main composer window doesn't feature a maximize button, nor on win nor on osx. That is for the reason i gave earlier. But anyway, i'll forget that reason, add the maximize button so you're free to use it or not

Will be in beta B.

But does it make sense to maximize it? As then you won't see the rackdesk window anymore?
.

alternatively you could ask: 'does it make sense that the rackdesk has got its own completely independend window?' I think it does, but mainly for multi-monitor setups - becasue then you could put it to a different screen than the main window - but then your argument against maximizing becomes invalid.

Perhaps it would be good if independend rackdesk-window was optional. With a single monitor I can't really see the advantage for me.

True reasoning. Indeed separate window for multi monitor support. And the difference with a docked version is minimal, imho. Especially if you use the F1, F2, F3 feature.

Anyway, i added the maximize functionality on the composer window. So the user is free to use it or not.

Do you know about the F1, F2, F3 function keys. They memorize the window positions for 3 states:

-> Composer Only
-> Composer + Rackdesk
-> Composer + MPA

Right, all three states have their individual position&size - which again renders your argument 'then you won't see the rackdesk window anymore' invalid (i.e. I could maximize the composer for F1 and still see the rackdesk as soon as I press F2.


Anyway: I really think there needs to be put some further thoughts into windows management

Added the maximize button. I think that adds the little missing thing. Agreed?

About window management: The F1-2-3 is very easy imho. No?

[muzycian]

Mmm, bit more. So is anything meant to happen if I add two Voice In/Voice Out paths to a MuSynth patch? I was hoping to set up a stereo pair with different voice processing, a stereo combinator and a single audio out but only the left (panned by the first voice's amp) channel sounded. The second voice wasn't doing anything.

Indeed, only a single voice in is supported.

But of course that's enough as you can split streams up as much as you want

(The "Save" option on WFT Osc worked okay, by the way.)

Did i miss a post? Wasn't it working first?

Aha, I see my mistake. The stereo combinator takes care of the left/right pan. Pulling the right channel back to centre in the amp brought the level up.

Ok, sounds like it works fine then

I understand that it's a bit puzzling at this stage how everything works together.

Because:

1) it's all fresh new stuff
2) there are still some points to be finetuned in the user interface, which currently might cause some confusion

Soution:

1) will resove itself, especially when the docs get enriched
2) see beta B

[muzycian]

Can you please let me know your system details again. Thanks.

G4 400 PPC, OSX 10.3.9 , M-Audio Delta 2496.

Oops, this cpu could be to weak for the job i'm afraid.

I shall give it a try on my Mac Mini tonight too.

Ok, curious how it runs there.

Could also please try with another midi keyboard (if possible) so to see if the hanging notes issue is also there.

So i would try: the other keyboard on the mac mini.

[muzycian]

Is there a way to patch Pitch Bend to the WFT?

Not yet.

It's fixed-size for now because it's a plug window. Taken note about tuning this.

Ah, right, makes sense... but would be nice to have fixed .

Sure

[jens]

Added the maximize button. I think that adds the little missing thing. Agreed?

agreed!

About window management: The F1-2-3 is very easy imho. No?

for me yes, although I know that some people don't like being forced to use key commands to much - but as I have it right now (Composer almost maximized, but at the bottom some pace left) it should work for them - however I think buttons on each window to access the other ones would still be nicer...

[muzycian]

Added the maximize button. I think that adds the little missing thing. Agreed?

agreed!

About window management: The F1-2-3 is very easy imho. No?

for me yes, although I know that some people don't like being forced to use key commands to much - but as I have it right now (Composer almost maximized, but at the bottom some pace left) it should work for them - however I think buttons on each window to access the other ones would still be nicer...

The F1-2-3 window commands are also accessible via the Edit menu.

So it's also available via easy mouse clicking.

Extra buttons would also add extra gui clutter.