u-he

psycox · Post by **psycox** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:58 am

Urs wrote:
psycox wrote:and i have a simple question. causes the voicedrift button exactly clones of the osc-output every triggerd note ?
Only when the Osc is also set to reset phase...

ok, thats whart i mean. now zebra is ready for cold digital sound

bagginz · Post by **bagginz** » Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:58 pm

Urs,
I'm a bit late to the party (I don't usually bother with betas) thanks for the great update.

Love the resizeable GUI. ( I see a few occasional small graphic distortions)

The oscillator drift switch in combination with osc reset is particularly useful for fast moving Psy-trance basslines.

Patch data - useful

Compressor modes - fabulous

New osc fx - lovely

Eleven - Quad was fat enough for me, but I'm sure that extra oscillator obesity will find some uses

Cheers,
bagginz

psycox · Post by **psycox** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:13 am

bagginz wrote:Urs,
I'm a bit late to the party (I don't usually bother with betas) thanks for the great update.

Love the resizeable GUI. ( I see a few occasional small graphic distortions)

The oscillator drift switch in combination with osc reset is particularly useful for fast moving Psy-trance basslines.

Patch data - useful

Compressor modes - fabulous

New osc fx - lovely

Eleven - Quad was fat enough for me, but I'm sure that extra oscillator obesity will find some uses

Cheers,
bagginz

+1

but i have found a bug, i cant load some of my old patches with this beta. after loading this patches i get only silence out of zebra.

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:21 am

psycox wrote:i cant load some of my old patches with this beta. after loading this patches i get only silence out of zebra.

Known. The Vintage2 filter (or whatever it's called)

psycox · Post by **psycox** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:27 am

Howard wrote:
psycox wrote:i cant load some of my old patches with this beta. after loading this patches i get only silence out of zebra.
Known. The Vintage2 filter (or whatever it's called)

ok, when its known it will be fixed.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:39 am

I hope it's just Vintage2 though! - Seems to be confused only on Windows. So I guess it's a compiler setting, mostly...

piZMo · Post by **piZMo** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:10 pm

forget it, posted too soon, i is stupid i.

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:24 pm

Hi, Is an estimated date for when we will have the full upgrade ready?
Next year?
I use the beta downloaded from July08.
I'm getting distortion using the Registerizer OSC effect set at 100(rightside). Nice clean organ, saved, switch preset, and go back to the organ patch, and I get digital noise on the Low End. If I click the preset name to reload, the noise is gone. I can also move the registerizer knob to make the distortion stop. This only happens in my presets. Howard's organ presets use registerizer, but do not make this distortion sound in the low end.
Another problem is with the eleven OSC setting. Not in sync for the first 4 or 6 notes played, but you already know that problem.
The GUI still does not close correctly after saving using (Panther)10.3.9. The save patch dialog, also does not show a blinking cursor. (I have to click in it first).
I will try the latest beta today, and see if that fixes the problems.
I'm on a MacG4powerbook,10.3.9/1.33/Live6.

Still the best (beyond) softsynth I own...oh yea, it's the only softsynth I own.
Well Thanks,
Cheers,
Mike

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:40 pm

MCnoone wrote:Hi, Is an estimated date for when we will have the full upgrade ready?
Next year?

Nope. I'll have an update to 2.3 pretty soon. There's not enough time and energy to finish the FX version, hence I won't call it 2.5

I'm getting distortion using the Registerizer OSC effect set at 100(rightside). Nice clean organ, saved, switch preset, and go back to the organ patch, and I get digital noise on the Low End. If I click the preset name to reload, the noise is gone. I can also move the registerizer knob to make the distortion stop. This only happens in my presets. Howard's organ presets use registerizer, but do not make this distortion sound in the low end.

Please send me your patch... unless it's fixed in the August beta.

Another problem is with the eleven OSC setting. Not in sync for the first 4 or 6 notes played, but you already know that problem.

Don't know what you mean here, it's probably fixed in current versions (I have not heard of problems with Eleven in months)

The GUI still does not close correctly after saving using (Panther)10.3.9.

First time I hear this. 10.3.9 is supposed to be compatible to Tiger in every respect taht I touch it, but I wouldn't bet on that (My settings in the dev tools say "works with 10.3.9", but if it really does... I assume not even Apple knows for sure...)

The save patch dialog, also does not show a blinking cursor. (I have to click in it first).

This is fixed in here, with little cosmetic work still to be done. In respect of changes to the windowing system from system upgrade to system upgrade I must honestly admit that I think Apple sucks. I've rewritten it for the fourth time after they sent me on a rollercoaster here to there to there and back again. Stuff that works in Panther doesn't work in Tiger. Stuff that works in Leopard doesn't work in Tiger either. Certain stuff being done according to their documentation doesn't work at all. I try my best though. If the cursor doesn't blink, then it might not be the worst option.

I will try the latest beta today, and see if that fixes the problems.
I'm on a MacG4powerbook,10.3.9/1.33/Live6.

The latest should fix some problems. Please let me know which ones it doesn't fix.

Later,

Urs

mcnoone · Post by **mcnoone** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:51 pm

Urs wrote:Please send me your patch... unless it's fixed in the August beta.

Yes I have a bass patch with a sync problem using Eleven OSC setting.(if I switch to Quad or other it fixes it).
I also have the organ patch with noise in the lower register, using Registerizer osc fx.
If the newest beta doesn't solve those problems, I will send them to you.
I'm getting a new Mac next year, so I don't want to bother upgrading yet.
Thanks,
Mike

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:57 pm

MCnoone wrote:If the newest beta doesn't solve those problems, I will send them to you.
I'm getting a new Mac next year, so I don't want to bother upgrading yet.
Thanks,
Mike

That would be great - it might be useful to send broken patches anyway

I still hope to keep things compatible to 10.3.9, but it seems to be increasingly problematic. I'll post a new build of Zebra soon (waiting for some stuff to arrive for the Win side) which will hopefully fix things big time.

Cheers,

Urs

bwwd · Post by **bwwd** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 2:12 am

Ahh eleven eleven , i know you implemented it when there was a thread about supersaw patches from Roland JP-8000 a so called 90's Jupiter-8 ,I had JP-8K and i did some tests with the supersaw ,it have two sliders ,one is for detune and second one is i think for adding more oscillators(i mean saws) ,You know i really doubt that its only 7-8 saws there ,or if there are then their detune is really superb and not usual ,I tested some synths with detune and closest to JP-8K detune is Synth1 detune ,even when i copied first preset (Chariots) and i played it in my DAW and JP-8K connected then i couldnt tell the difference,There was detune amount of 7 in synth1 ,maybe higher it isnt so accurate but i think i prefere actually detune on synth1 than the one on JP-8K , the one from Roland sometimes isnt stacked so good at higher detune knob values and you can hear "holes between oscillators "(i call them like that.
Its when detuned sound isnt one sound anymore and you can hear many tiny saws attached to each other ,like if phase wasnt adjusted and tested that much in those higher ranges of detune.In synth1 i dont hear this at high detune values like 34 and sounds is ONE (instead of couple of stacked saws).Im not synth engineer but i was wondering why some detunes sounds better and some worse to ears.
Rolands JP-8K detune is nice and stringy because of this good phase and detune ,also synth1 phase on detune is very good IMO.You could check it , move osc mix all the way to first osc and move detune knob ,turn off all fx.
There is some phase speed in Synth1 and maybe this cause the sound to be so smooth on strings patches when amp envelope is above 60 , when its at 0 along with filter envelope then you can hear some saws hitting each other and later sound is smoothly detuned with not so noticeable phase effect.
I writing all this because i would like you to implement similar and accurate detuning for yours 11 saw sound if you already have it in Zebra2 and i would like to give some advices after tests.
Also i tested Genesis and you could check its detune too , it have 22 saws (?)Im not sure , but it also sounds great because of this and you dont hear those holes in phase during detuning.
In JP-8K you can adjust the slider and add saws ,i doubt its only 8 or 7 saws there when you push the slider all way up ,but im no expert,if Genesis with using 22 saws sounds that good so maybe you could try even more than 11 saws ?
This is JP-8000 detune test :
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=A7E58E8KHQHS
I adjusting slider for amount of saws first then detune slider ,
It was like in 3 steps for amount of saws , 1/3 of height,2/3 and all way up.and between those steps i moved detune slider up and down.
You can also test synth1 detune and hear the Chariots patch ,its in this bank :
http://bwwd2.diinoweb.com/files/GreenBank.zip
As you can hear in this patch there is no fx at all and it sounds smooth and nice,adjust detune to 19 and 24 for really nice strings.
I tested Zebra2 just minutes ago and its detune of 11 saws would be much better if similar to those synths which i described ,it allows to create very nice string patches ,JP-8k had better ability to create strings as far as i remember ,they were more clear on high notes.I dont own it anymore cause i sold it like month ago.
I hope you will take this into consideration and take a look at other synths to create really good detune for 11 o maybe more saws.I thought that you left it and implemented it just for fun but as i see you added width and improved it i posting my 2 cents about detune, its my favourite feature in synths.
So thanks ,thats all

You can hear in the JP-8000 example when i detuning the sound how much highs are heard and saws are so nice stacked together.Maybe phase amount is changing when you detune more and more ?I dont know.All i know it sounds very nice and is useful to create 80's brass sounds and strings.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:09 am

bwwd, I'll check your examples.

But have you actually tried the detune, phase and width controls on Zebra's Eleven?

Urs

bwwd · Post by **bwwd** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:06 pm

Yes of course , i actually listen to it right now comparing to synth1 and i must say phase algorithm in synth1 is really really nice ,but in zebra phase + detune doesnt sound so good , you can hear phase very clear and it somehow makes the sound phased/chorusy.Theres too much lows hearable in zebra while in synh1 you hear this characteristic high pitched scream on low values of detune.
Check synth1 and adjust detune only by 1.You can hear how it screams on the high end(dont forget to change to saw from initial patch which have pulse).
Similar effect is on Roland ,when you detune then you can hear this high pitched end of detuned sound,it isnt so noticeable in Zebra with 11 saws (synth1 have probably 9 voices).
What i think is much more important from number of saws is actually good phase algorithm to take care of them and make this full one sound from stacked saws.
Why zebra2 phase on 11 saws is so noticeable while synth1 is smooth ?
Oh , i comparing zebra 11 saws detune with synth1 ,adjusting amount of detune and IMO there isnt really any competition from Zebra side right now,
i dont know how this guy made it sound so nice in synth1 ,listen to values between 1 and 24 on chords in synth1 , great for strings.I cant do the same in zebra , yes its possible but with other way.
I dont want to bash your synth of course , even if synth1 is my favourite right now then i knew that Zebra2 is much more advanced long time ago when i tested demo.But... it didnt had so nice detune.So now since you added 11 saws , is it possible to make similar phase algorithm and detune to synth1 by ear ?This would be big step forward IMO.
Also...
JP-8k using exponential detunings like this:
http://hendrix.uoregon.edu/~dlivelyb/ph ... _graph.gif
Quote by somebody else:
"In the JP (Purple curve) one can make nice pads because the ocs detune only a little in the beggining and then they get a rapid jump.
Perhaps in Sylenth1 the detunings are linear like in the dotted line?
Then perhaps the people that want the smooth effect, cant get it because they pass the sweetspot too fast.

Maybe you could change the detuning code to be exponential? But maybe this will ruin some patches or include a button or an option in the menu to switch between these two detunings."
Maybe this could help.

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:33 pm

Sorry, you completely lost me here. The idea of a good supersaw is to detune each saw as randomly as possible to prevent repretitive patterns. That's what I'm doing.

Are you talking about the phase reset that was on until recently, where the first 16 notes or so were phasing? That should be fixed.

Can you post an mp3 of Zebra with the "wrong" supersaw sound along with the patch?

Urs

u-he

KVR Audio

Zebra 2.3 Released!