Zebra 2.3 Released!

[bwwd]

Yeah i expected that Arksun ,in JP supersaw is to create very nice strings i dont talking about trance supersaw detune cause it is already doable in zebra , it detunes to trancey sound accurate and its OK,i talking about in between sound of detune , needed to mimic Juno and Jupiter pads or strings like synthetic orchestra , and i like synth1 detune more than JP detune cause it isnt so raw sounding on higher values.
I wrote the same in sylenth and i writing this here , both synths are very good but detune is still not that good.
Idea of having supersaw type osc by adding 11 saws and mimic it could be more accurate here ,(cause Urs implemented it in supersaw thread when supersaws from many synths were compared to each other) but if no one cares then OK.
But i feel like im battling with windmills.


OK test here , synth1 first then zebra2 ,detune from 0 to 50 then back to 15-20 ,and which one is nice one ?
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CUQ2ZPJFPLHX

[Howard]

i talking about in between sound of detune, needed to mimic Juno and Jupiter pads or strings like synthetic orchestra...But i feel like im battling with windmills.

Right, now I understand what you're after, but I think you're too hung up on the raw supersaw instead of other factors (envelope shapes, osc FX etc.). IMHO Zebra2 is EXCEEDINGLY good at emulating Jupiter/Juno pads/string! If I were forced to say that Zebra2 (the VA bits at least) has an "overall character", I would quote Jupiter 8 as the synth to which it is most similar.

[Urs]

OK test here , synth1 first then zebra2 ,detune from 0 to 50 then back to 15-20 ,and which one is nice one ?
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CUQ2ZPJFPLHX

You sure realize that these examples are played at different octaves?

(Zebra2's default patch is transposed down by an octave)

[djsubject]

yea would like to here them both at the same octave plz

in fact you could do a reverse, so play Z2 at the octave higher, & take S1 down a octave,

that would settle all arguments?



Subz

[bwwd]

yeah i recorded wrong ones wait


----
OK here:
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=NSHNWYG6AFLI

And sorry,i was in a rush i just came back from an airplane to home.

[bwwd]

Also one octave down in comparision:
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CJX8GAAK16FD

[Arksun]

Also one octave down in comparision:
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CJX8GAAK16FD

Ok, I do see (hear) what you're getting at, in that mp3 file that zebra example has more audible phasing artifacts at lower frequencies than the Synth1 example, so ends up sounding more edgy.

(The Zebra example sounds like the detuning amount also went beyond the amount of detuning that was in the synth1 example at its most detuned point so again the comparison isn't exact)

I'm gonna have a little play in Zebra see if I can get a little bit closer (but I'm not expecting it to be close enough.)

FYI The Unison in Alchemy also has this smoother sound that I think you'd prefer, hopefully Urs won't mind me mentioning that here, doesn't take anything away from Zebra's brilliance

[Howard]

Also one octave down in comparision:
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CJX8GAAK16FD

1) Synth1 example starts at SINGLE saw (value 1 jumps to zingy multiple saws)
2) Z2 example starts at zingy multiple saws, has less detune at minimum and MUCH more detune at maximum.

So: the comparison is not quite right. Needs to be refined.

[djsubject]

well they don't sound he same at all!

dose S1 have hidden extras going on in the OSC?

I'm sure you could make a patch in Z2 to sound like that patch in S1

Subz

[Arksun]

Also one octave down in comparision:
http://www.supload.com/listen?s=CJX8GAAK16FD

1) Synth1 example starts at SINGLE saw (value 1 jumps to zingy multiple saws)
2) Z2 example starts at zingy multiple saws, has less detune at minimum and MUCH more detune at maximum.

So: the comparison is not quite right. Needs to be refined.

No he is correct in the message he's trying to convey Howard (though I disagreed with the message that the JP800's supersaw was the 'best', but it is different!), its quite hard to create that specific kind of unison sound in Zebra purely using its Unison detune, even taking into account the fact that the detuning amount was pushed harder in the zebra example. It's much easier to do it in something like Alchemy who's Unison has that specific kind of smooth phasing sound right from the start.

Anyways, here's as close as I got after just a few minutes tweaking with Zebra2:

www.arksun-sound.com/music/ArkZSaws.mp3

Both zebra2, two different presets (first one single Osc 11 voice, second one 2 x quad)

Saw waveform was slightly softened too, here's the presets:

http://www.arksun-sound.com/zs/

*edit* I just wanted to add that your presets seriously kick ass Howard, the attention to detail in some of them is mind boggingly good!. Real 'performance' type presets for keyboardists

[bwwd]

obviously 50 in synth1 and around 50 in zebra2 give slightly different amounts of detune because algorithm is different and 50 is zebra2 maximum ,and i moved zebra to about 35 (dont remember now).But thats not the case ,i wanted to show the sound inbetween ,not the trancey leads detune but strings detune.
I tested many synths and so far synth1 have best detune for my ears.

[Howard]

i wanted to show the sound inbetween, not the trancey leads detune but strings detune.

So you mean a constant detune. Could you post your best Synth1 example? (Not for me - I'm away for a while)

[bwwd]

I posted comparisions already , no artifacts in synth1 detune and its smooth on chords. I am very tired ,must go sleep now.

[Urs]

I still don't get it... Zebra 2 is detuned stronger than Synth1 in the example or something? What "artifacts" do you mean?

Can anybody post a single good quality mp3, holding a single (!) note with just a single (!) oscillator in Eleven mode that exhibits any sort of artifacts (other than digital clipping of course)?

[Arksun]

I still don't get it... Zebra 2 is detuned stronger than Synth1 in the example or something? What "artifacts" do you mean?

Can anybody post a single good quality mp3, holding a single (!) note with just a single (!) oscillator in Eleven mode that exhibits any sort of artifacts (other than digital clipping of course)?

I'll try and help explain it for bwwd

It's not really an easy thing to explain in words, but once you get it the differences become clear. Artifacts is perhaps a bad word to use, its not meant in the sense of distortion or aliasing or something inherently 'bad' at all!.

http://www.arksun-sound.com/music/Saw_Examples.mp3

Here are 4 different synths, same note. The detune amount between the saws of the unison aren't precisely the same between all 4, but that doesn't really matter because you'll still hear whats going on.

Ok, the hard part, I can be rubbish at putting this sort of stuff into words!

But basically what you're listening to is the phasing side of the sound in each. When you use Unison on any synth it does have this kinda phaser type fx sound to it, which is understandable given that what you're doing is the same waveform mixed together at slightly different pitches and/or phase positions.

The first note is Synth1, the phasing sounds pretty smooth in the sense that its more higher up the frequency range, sounds more fizzy, but light fizzy, the lower frequency oscillating reasonances are minimal and there's no real edgyness down there.

Second note in the mp3 is Alchemy. Reasonably similar again to the Synth1 one, same kind of properties, except the lower freq reasonance are a bit more prominant.

Third note is Zebra2. You should immediately hear whats almost like a flanging effect of the phasing between the oscillators. similar to Alchemy and Synth1 except occuring lower down the frequency spectrum, which gives it a kind of edgier less smooth sound compared to synth1's and alchemy.

Forth note is Albino3's spread. Completely different from all of the above in all respects!

I suspect the reason why there's these differences between the synths is to do with the phase relationships between all the copys of the waveform generated by the Unison mode. Which would mean that both the amount of pitch difference between the different waves AND the relative phase positions are of equal importance.

One thing I would say though, is that the existing sound of the 2/4/11 Unison in Zebra2 is particular useful for certain sounds, so it would be a shame to lose that. So if there was enough demand for the synth1/alchemy style unison, would be better to have a new additional 11 voice mode (or perhaps make it just 8-10 instead)

*edit* Just to explain the JP8000/synth1/alchemy style unison's usefullness further. Even though it may initially seem a little more hissy, because the phasing is focused more in the higher frequencies in a lighter way, when combined with a LPF filter thats filtered down, it allows a smoother rich n creamy saw pad type sound, but because the Zebra (and certain other synths too) has this almost flange like phasing which is audible much lower down, that takes more dominance in the overall sound when using low pass cutoff thats at a lower cutoff frequency.

Hopefully that kinda makes sense now