u-he

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:48 pm

You don't have a link to a english site ? I do read German however it's quite a struggle. I googled Alpha Wave Modulation and got nothing. The little i've read about this subject in the past has been about sinewaves but that could be wrong.

I believe the whole thing is a hoax for the gullible but who cares what i think ? If it is possible to do in Z2 i'll help you.

The only other way i could think of would'nt really be doable in Z2 (or would be better done in another kind of plugin like the Uhbik's for example). It has to do with pitch modulating the source material but i can't imagine it being done that way but again,i could be wrong.

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 pm

If you take some low frequency component of your music (eg bass drone) and pitch it up in one stereo channel and down in the other you will get a pitch difference of 2x the shift you used in each case. So, for example, a 2 x 1.5 Hz gives 3 Hz difference. This should be a 3 Hz sine wave and I guess you might expect it to help induce low frequency brain waves (if indeed this approach works

).

Actual brain waves (alpha, delta, theta etc - which are seen on an EEG are typical of different states of consciousness) are not pure sine waves obviously - the systems (networks of neurons in the brain or heart pacemaker cells etc) that generate biological oscillations are more chaotic in nature. These less orderly oscillations might be better simulated by pitch shifts that are not fixed but variable over a range. This above is just my guesswork but you could probably find some neuroscience papers on this where the method for generating the waves is spelled out.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:02 pm

This might give you a start..thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_synchronization

or this one.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats

but your right i just read some stuff how to achieve those waves by simply detuning two sound an let one come from the left/one from the right..

BINAURAL BEATS / BINAURAL BEAT FREQUENCIES

The process of creating brainwave-entraining binaural beat frequencies is actually quite simple to explain.

First, you create two audio tones, two slightly different frequencies (ie: 100 Hz & 107 Hz). By playing one tone in your left ear and the other tone in your right ear, your brain reacts to this audio stimuli by resonating brainwave activity to the difference between these two tones. Your brainwaves adjust to match this differential frequency.

For example, if you play a frequency of 100 Hz in your left ear and 107 Hz in your right ear, your brain will attune to the 7 Hz differential (107 Hz - 100 Hz= 7 Hz). This frequency-following-response causes your brain to resonate at 7 Hz frequency which falls within the Theta brainwave range.

This state-of-the-art psychoacoustic guidance can create phenomenal results.

but that also means , one would need a headphone for this..maybe i find something that works without headphones..will see..

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:08 pm

egbert wrote:If you take some low frequency component of your music (eg bass drone) and pitch it up in one stereo channel and down in the other you will get a pitch difference of 2x the shift you used in each case. So, for example, a 2 x 1.5 Hz gives 3 Hz difference. This should be a 3 Hz sine wave and I guess you might expect it to help induce low frequency brain waves.

Actual brain waves (alpha, delta, theta - typical of different states of consciousness etc) are not pure sine waves obviously - the systems (networks of neurons in the brain or heart pacemaker cells etc) that generate biological oscillations are more chaotic in nature. These less orderly oscillations might be better simulated by pitch shifts that are not fixed but variable over a range. This above is just my guesswork but you could probably find some neuroscience papers on this where the method for generating the waves is spelled out.

So Z2 would be a pretty bad choice for this if i understand correctly. What you'd want is filters and pitch shifters. I don't really see why Z2 should be the first choice for such an endeavour. The Uhbik's or whatever seems like a much more logical choice.

Anyways the first stuff you wrote assumes there's no pitch difference to begin with. How could one assume that ? That would only work on some music and not on other.

BTW the Wikipedia article on Alpha waves looks just like AM:d sinewaves but then again this is an area i know little about. Alpha waves that is,not sinewaves. I'm a sinewave Guru. All my friends call me first when it comes to sinewave questions.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:08 pm

Here is a good one on brainwave entrainment without headphones..

http://www.transparentcorp.com/special/ ... nwaves.php

jupiter8 · Post by **jupiter8** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:13 pm

Quack wrote:This might give you a start..thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_synchronization

or this one.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats

but your right i just read some stuff how to achieve those waves by simply detuning two sound an let one come from the left/one from the right..

BINAURAL BEATS / BINAURAL BEAT FREQUENCIES

The process of creating brainwave-entraining binaural beat frequencies is actually quite simple to explain.

First, you create two audio tones, two slightly different frequencies (ie: 100 Hz & 107 Hz). By playing one tone in your left ear and the other tone in your right ear, your brain reacts to this audio stimuli by resonating brainwave activity to the difference between these two tones. Your brainwaves adjust to match this differential frequency.

For example, if you play a frequency of 100 Hz in your left ear and 107 Hz in your right ear, your brain will attune to the 7 Hz differential (107 Hz - 100 Hz= 7 Hz). This frequency-following-response causes your brain to resonate at 7 Hz frequency which falls within the Theta brainwave range.

This state-of-the-art psychoacoustic guidance can create phenomenal results.

but that also means , one would need a headphone for this..maybe i find something that works without headphones..will see..

So we're back to the sinewaves again ? Not that it necessarily has to be sinewaves i believe they're the natural choice for this kinds of experiments.

Just make a sinewave in Z2 and set poly to dual,witdh to full and play around with the detune parameter. It'll do exactly what you want.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:20 pm

jupiter8 wrote:
Quack wrote:This might give you a start..thanks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_synchronization

or this one.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats

but your right i just read some stuff how to achieve those waves by simply detuning two sound an let one come from the left/one from the right..

BINAURAL BEATS / BINAURAL BEAT FREQUENCIES

The process of creating brainwave-entraining binaural beat frequencies is actually quite simple to explain.

First, you create two audio tones, two slightly different frequencies (ie: 100 Hz & 107 Hz). By playing one tone in your left ear and the other tone in your right ear, your brain reacts to this audio stimuli by resonating brainwave activity to the difference between these two tones. Your brainwaves adjust to match this differential frequency.

For example, if you play a frequency of 100 Hz in your left ear and 107 Hz in your right ear, your brain will attune to the 7 Hz differential (107 Hz - 100 Hz= 7 Hz). This frequency-following-response causes your brain to resonate at 7 Hz frequency which falls within the Theta brainwave range.

This state-of-the-art psychoacoustic guidance can create phenomenal results.

but that also means , one would need a headphone for this..maybe i find something that works without headphones..will see..
So we're back to the sinewaves again ? Not that it necessarily has to be sinewaves i believe they're the natural choice for this kinds of experiments.

Just make a sinewave in Z2 and set poly to dual,witdh to full and play around with the detune parameter. It'll do exactly what you want.

yes seems to be right..just read that binaural beats doesn't work without headphones but monaural beats do..will see if i find such an explanation as well..thanks for reading anyway..

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:24 pm

The other thing to consider is whether the sound you are planning to use is going to be tolerable to a listener trying to relax/meditate. If it is just a couple of continuous tones around or 100 Hz it might be really noxious and people might want to turn it off after about ten seconds

.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Hehe yer..

actualy i create psytrance music so it will be dance music anyway..

oand i even started to create some chill/dub music and i think the sound will suite for this purpose..
actualy i just want to layer my sound with this kinds..

not make pure use of it..

Ha..i found a good one!!

yeahh.. http://www.healingbeats.com/forum/viewt ... ?f=7&t=277

i guess i will find all my answers in that forum..

thanks to take part of the task m8s!

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:50 pm

jupiter8 wrote:So Z2 would be a pretty bad choice for this if i understand correctly. What you'd want is filters and pitch shifters. I don't really see why Z2 should be the first choice for such an endeavour. The Uhbik's or whatever seems like a much more logical choice.

Z2 has sideband filters (SB)...will they do?

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:03 pm

Would be interested as well..just read through the mentioned forum..they task some stand alone binaural beat programs..will check them out and see what happens there and then try to find a way in Z2..

rifftrax · Post by **rifftrax** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:18 pm

jupiter8 wrote:I believe the whole thing is a hoax for the gullible but who cares what i think ? If it is possible to do in Z2 i'll help you.

I would normally think the same thing as well but I do remember reading other studies about extreme low-frequency waves in general and the effect on the production of dopamine in the brain.

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:20 pm

Ok , here is something we can think about..

Binaural Beats have lets say one osc in the left channel and one in the right.
slightly detunes , lets say the left tone 440 and the right tone 450 hz.
That forces your brain to seperate it and create the difference in brainwaves ...10hz wich would have an effect in the Alpha wave level.

This requiers headphones to take effect..

Monaural Beats is basically the same, but with both osc coming through both channels..the seperation happens outside of the brain and there is no need to use headphones to get an effect.

Isochronic Beats , wich are ment to have the biggest effect on Brain Entrainment are basically Monaural beats with a static tremolo on it..like heartbeat or similar..specific tremolo amount for specific results..

Ok, nothing simpler than that in Zebra.

http://www.michaelnorris.info/freqtonote.html

use this one to know the specific amount of detuning in cents to achieve such tones and voila..

this should work..they clame monaural beats should be sine waves or at least they did only test all this with sine waves

will see if this stresses any hypnotical fx on my music in future..
i will post it into that other Healing Beats forum and see if it is true what i say.. i just asume it from things i know so far..thanks

Cyoon · Post by **Cyoon** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:35 pm

How can i tune my osc in 0.01 steps? always when i try to detune it it makes steps of 0.5.. any idea?

thanks,

Mark

Urs · Post by **Urs** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:53 pm

Zork wrote:How can i tune my osc in 0.01 steps? always when i try to detune it it makes steps of 0.5.. any idea?

Hold shift key down?

u-he

KVR Audio

Alpha Wave Modulation??