M3 Tests

[MuTools]

It is strange that the actual module itself is a subset of the preset library (either as in the templates folder or the modules modestly hidden amongst the list).

I think the only reason why it's strange is because we're not used to it.

But:

In fact it doesn't matter whether your sound comes from Synthia or Sampla of MuSynth. It's more meaningful to divide the patches per category like Bass, Pad, Lead, etc...

In M27 (and most other hosts) when you want a bass sound, you plugin synth X and look into its bass sounds. If nothing found as you like, then delete synth X and plugin synth Y and look into its bass sounds, and so on. The synth switching is not comfortable!

I think it's better to just look into the bass sounds and don't care about which synth/device/module/template actually generates that bass sound.

This new system also has the advantage that when you've plugged in abass osund, and it comes e.g. from Synthia, you can still scroll thru ALL other patches in the library. And so if Synthia loads a Sampla patch, Synthia becomes a Sampla

[liquidsound]

Now I found the "Templates" from where you can chose devices that you an use...
Should it be renamed ? Devices... Synths... Instruments ?

It seems (I am not sure because this is a Test Free version) that as soon you browse and choose a Plug-in, the context menu changes and the built in synths are listed by name and when collapsed they show the list of presets and the Template is no longer available in the first selection but nested inside a built in synth!.Cool indeed but unpredictable at first.
and...a little strange

I don't see what you mean. No such intended behaviour. The patch list should always be the same. No?

This would make more sense....IMHO
The Menu should be like 2.7 with the M3 addition of the synths patches within their respective synth. A Mind Map system. Parent-Children-GranChildren etc. = Logical

[liquidsound]

Now I am going to get killed....

Some of the smoothness of the Key Editor in jotting down ideas was the 1-click note drawing.
I know it interfere with the now implemented Selection marquise but it would be very useful if 1-click Note could be added with a MODIFIER key to keep the traditional way alive and for new user coming from other DAWs (Reason for example) and maybe for old users of MuLab as well if they are missing this.
2.7 was like having a real pen in your hands.
Control or Shift are actually NULL in the Key editor when using a LMB.

Think about it. It is not bad at all to cover two universal usage of composing.
In fact now, when I jump from Reason I get Hiccups.
Can this be accessible in the Text file somehow?

I know, I am going to get K***

[MuTools]

Just a short explanation about my suggestion (double click the track to popup "choose target"):

It prevents those situations when you click once in a "reflexive gesture" (don't know how to explain...sorry for by bad english) or you want to mute the track and miss the mute icon (then it will open the "choose target" menu but you just wanted to mute the track)...

Track headers should really have something more there...i know it must be a clean and "simple" daw but IMHO sometimes it's more complex and "less clean" to access basic controls with mouse clicks and popup menus...

Sure, sometimes things can be too simple, i agree. It's all about a good balance

On topic:

There are 2 aspects which complicate a track header redesign:

* If we add a solo button in the track header, then we should also redesign the rack layout as it should get a solo button too. There is no time anymore to start redesigning these things in the M3 R&D phase. M3 is heading towards release and the only thing we can do is bug fixing and finetunings.
* Note that you can lasso select the mute buttons of tracks. This is a handy feature, but it puts limits on how the track header must look like. Hope you see what i mean.

Ok, assuming we keep things as is in M3 but just trying to finetune things, then i think that to have comfortable and consistent behaviour the trackheader interaction should be like this:

Leftclick on icon or name = Focus target (cfr racks)
Doubleclick on icon or name = Edit target (cfr racks)
Rightclick on icon or name = Track context menu (cfr everywhere)

Now how to choose a target for a track? Use the context menu.

I've been playing with a smooth redesign which includes a drop-down icon to the track header which could do the "choose target" on leftclick:



But it looks a bit weird no? I think i would rather stick with the current layout but doing the interaction as mentioned here above.

What do you think?

[MuTools]

Now I am going to get killed....

Some of the smoothness of the Key Editor in jotting down ideas was the 1-click note drawing.
I know it interfere with the now implemented Selection marquise but it would be very useful if 1-click Note could be added with a MODIFIER key to keep the traditional way alive and for new user coming from other DAWs (Reason for example) and maybe for old users of MuLab as well if they are missing this.
2.7 was like having a real pen in your hands.
Control or Shift are actually NULL in the Key editor when using a LMB.

Think about it. It is not bad at all to cover two universal usage of composing.
In fact now, when I jump from Reason I get Hiccups.
Can this be accessible in the Text file somehow?

I know, I am going to get K***

Killing you? No way

On topic: [Cntrl]+arrow = pencil sounds like a good idea. Quickly checked it and should be possible. Added to the M3 whishlist.

[liquidsound]

Killing you? No way

On topic: [Cntrl]+arrow = pencil sounds like a good idea. Quickly checked it and should be possible. Added to the M3 whishlist.

What can I say...
The best part of MuLab is.... You

[liquidsound]

It is strange that the actual module itself is a subset of the preset library (either as in the templates folder or the modules modestly hidden amongst the list).

I think the only reason why it's strange is because we're not used to it.

But:

In fact it doesn't matter whether your sound comes from Synthia or Sampla of MuSynth. It's more meaningful to divide the patches per category like Bass, Pad, Lead, etc...

In M27 (and most other hosts) when you want a bass sound, you plugin synth X and look into its bass sounds. If nothing found as you like, then delete synth X and plugin synth Y and look into its bass sounds, and so on. The synth switching is not comfortable!

I think it's better to just look into the bass sounds and don't care about which synth/device/module/template actually generates that bass sound.

This new system also has the advantage that when you've plugged in abass osund, and it comes e.g. from Synthia, you can still scroll thru ALL other patches in the library. And so if Synthia loads a Sampla patch, Synthia becomes a Sampla

OK now it makes more sense.
But, we could have both, like in the shortcuts: Generic/Specific.

[MuTools]

But, we could have both, like in the shortcuts: Generic/Specific.

I don't see any advantage to do it the other way again.

[bpblog]

about the patches in the plugin browser issue...
i understand jo's explanation, but after playing with m3 for a week or so, i really miss the old sampla/multisampla/musynth/synthia layout. to me, it felt far more practical.

[MuTools]

Why?

[sorohanro]

about the patches in the plugin browser issue...
i understand jo's explanation, but after playing with m3 for a week or so, i really miss the old sampla/multisampla/musynth/synthia layout. to me, it felt far more practical.

+1
Don't know why but yes... also to me it's more natural.
It;s like in a kitchen when you put fruits/ vegetables/ cornflakes/ meat, into separate compartments, not put everything together based on the color (red apples with tomatoes and red meat/ green apples with cabbage...etc).

Also, I don't know if you caught it before, the background color it's black in M3, used to be grey, somehow a better choice.

Also writing is very small compared to M2.7 and (to me) harder to read.

Some of the "border lines" are bigger and the lack of "tools" on the screen have a weird impact on me. Make me feel like M3 is an older version of M2.7.

I was using several hard on CPU plugins (VSTi) and for now I didn't encountered any problem.
Somehow the sound is "crispier"... what you did to the audio engine ?
("crispier" is a good thing, it's what I always lacked in FL)

[MuTools]

about the patches in the plugin browser issue...
i understand jo's explanation, but after playing with m3 for a week or so, i really miss the old sampla/multisampla/musynth/synthia layout. to me, it felt far more practical.

+1
Don't know why but yes... also to me it's more natural.
It;s like in a kitchen when you put fruits/ vegetables/ cornflakes/ meat, into separate compartments, not put everything together based on the color (red apples with tomatoes and red meat/ green apples with cabbage...etc).

I'm sorry but i don't follow this comparison.
You could make this comparison exactly the same about the opposite.

When grouping all patches per device intead of per category, you say the red apples are with the tomatoes.

I try to group basses with basses, pads with pads. To me that is grouping fruits with fruits, meat with meat etc...

I think it doesn't matter whether the bass sound comes from Synthia or MuSynth or whatever-synth-in-the-future, it's about a bass sound. No?

Also, I don't know if you caught it before, the background color it's black in M3, used to be grey, somehow a better choice.

Ah, sorry, yes something has changed there. Will try to finetune this.

Also writing is very small compared to M2.7 and (to me) harder to read.

You mean the popup menus?

I've simply aligned all popup menus, so that they all use the same font size.

Note that you can choose a larger menu font size if you want:

http://www.mutools.com/mulab/docs/preferences.html

See MenuFontSize

Some of the "border lines" are bigger and the lack of "tools" on the screen have a weird impact on me. Make me feel like M3 is an older version of M2.7.

I disagree. In this case less is more, imho.

I'm very proud and happy with the new tool system

I was using several hard on CPU plugins (VSTi) and for now I didn't encountered any problem.
Somehow the sound is "crispier"... what you did to the audio engine ?
("crispier" is a good thing, it's what I always lacked in FL)

Euh, no i didn't change anything in the vst -> output audio path (afair).

[Improviser]

Another thing:
File, Edit and Help popup menus should "appear" under File, Edit and Help...they shouldn't hide those...something like this:

I'd agree with gemada, it would be better if the File, Edit and Help menus popped up just below the buttons, instead of obscuring them.

Les J.

[liquidsound]

Why?

Here is what's happening from what I see so far:

The Context Menu without 3rd party plug-ins shows:
+ Synths

When collapsed it shows:
+ Patches Category Sounds Folders > Patches
+ Template Folder > MuLab Synths
Other (Unclassified?) Patches

BUT

When a third party Plug-in is added then we have:
+ Synths

When collapsed it shows:
+ MuSynth > containing All of the above (Changed from above)
+ VST > Third party Plug-ins (New. Not above)

1] Why, in the second scenario, all the MuLab synths are inside a folder called MuSynth?

2] Maybe leaving the +Template folder outside the patches directory could clarify some of the confusion because it will keep the MuLab synth as in 2.7 and the Patches still all together.

One of the solutions could be:
+ Synths > MuLab Synths (Same as in Templates)
+ Patches > MuLab Synths's Patches (as of now)
+ VST > Third Party Plug-Ins

Win/Win

[MuTools]

1) You have to right click - composition - grid (it's a long way)...
And the mouse cursor display just shows up a limited information about grid (snap on/off) for a second...i can't see any useful information there about grid size and if it's on/off...i'm i missing something?

You can know whether grid is on or off by looking at the mouse info box. When moving the mouse you see its position. If it's snapped, grid is on, else not.

Which grid? You can deduct that from that same mouse info, and from the grid lines.