Arts Acoustic CL Series compressors- no love?

[Tp3]

It's not the same as an 1176 plugin where you can have 15 instances, so you take it for granted and start demoing the latest and greatest the next minute. Hardware's not so "disposable".

And I guess THAT'S what makes a great workFLOW

[shogger]

And the correct answer will be...

Oh...

<drum roll compressed with a 1:50 ratio, slow attack ,fast release,

exciiiiiiteedddddd!!!!!

fast women and fast cars>

OK, gimme the fast cars NOW!!!

.... Shogger's !!

Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!Yes!

I made it!!!

You have won a trip to Linköping, Sweden - to Softube HQ. you will then be accompanied by Oscar Öberg

Sweden? Cool. But whos Oscar Öberg?

and will
have the honor to compare ALL emulations to the real thing, evaluating emulations - FOR ONE WHOLE YAER !!!

WHAT??? With paid everything for the whole family?

(J/K of course )

Oh, Gaston!

I happened to bump into a few "Old" man in recent years... and make no mistake : they are gear whores just as all
of us. with one exception : it's is called "discipline". and together with their experience and wisdom (ie. "old")
they just know what to use and what NOT (ie. "They ARE pragmatic" - knowing they CANNOT test and compare EVERYTHING and anything.... for FOREVER)

There ARE people like that.

They just don't hang around these places....

Well, a few. Sometimes.

[JeffSanders]

There's also a big difference between people who are running a business and people who are having fun. If you want to stay in business, you need to make a lot more than you spend. So it's crucial to find tools you're comfortable with and stay with them.

Anyways, the AA comp is bad ass. imho.

[Tp3]

Sweden? Cool. But whos Oscar Öberg?

http://www.softube.se/index.php?p=company

Oh, Gaston!

Is Gaston from softube ?? is he old ?!

I happened to bump into a few "Old" man in recent years... They just don't hang around these places....

Well, a few. Sometimes.

Are you one of them ?

[shogger]

I happened to bump into a few "Old" man in recent years... They just don't hang around these places....

Well, a few. Sometimes.

Are you one of them ?

Hehe, old is so relative. No, I'm not that old...

Shogger

[Tp3]

Well, as I'm not talking about 50-60 (Because I don't know such age group in person) but 35-50, I'm talking
about those Who've experienced "old" consules AND plugs and KNOW how they'd like THEIR audio to
sound like. for better and for worse.

I'm not one of them, BTW (although I DO fall into the age bracket of the latter).



Maybe they do roam these places but it's NOT to gain knowledge.

Lets assume that one of them WERE to ask for "Colorful EQ that sounds nice", what was the answer they would get, in your opinion ?

"Oh, man .... Sonnox is the way !"
"I recommend ReaEQ"
"I use Brainworx, it was released yesterday. you gotta try it ! but buy after you try"
"hey, you HAVE to try Waves, I like the interface's color !"
"I recommend Neon HR. it is transparent in a colorful way !"
"I use URS. it is vintage, man. vintage... you know what is it ?"
"Hey man... you gotta use UAD. ALL of them is very transparent ! and it is used by top technicians (my Mom's
hairdresser is using one !)"
"No, you have to try Waves. it is transparent. and colorful. and cheap"
"Hey man, listen though. I is got 11 weeks of experience. I mix club trance for them big producers. I is using sonalksis. them is transparent color"
"You HAVE to use RS MET (I thing it was developed by technicians from Middle East Television) . I recommend it"
"I use Cubase EQ. it is enough !"
"And and use Logic's"
"Use a Chorus. it makes em phat beats like no EQ can"
"I use Abbey Road Plug-ins"
"I use Antress"
"I use Blue Cat. if BLUE Cat isn't colorful, I don no what is !"
"I think Redline's is more colorful. RED is stronger then Blue. it draws the listener's attention"
"Use Yellow tools. they have this sampler 'INDEPENDENCE'. it is the best color sampler. especially yellow"
"I use some cheap EQ called Brand April 1073. it sounds nice, but I haven't manage to use it as a plugin"
"I use Golden Audio Channel GAC-1. gold is the color of money. you wanna make money ??"

And the best one :

"I have all the plugs there is. I have Waves, Sonalksis, UAD, Powercore, Nebula, Sonnox, PSP, URS, Liquid
Channel, you name it. I have all tose plugs installed. I can tell without a shadow of a doubt :
No plugin EQ comes CLOSE to hardware. I don't like plugin sound. it's thin and ugly. and though I have
never worked with hardare in my life, I can say for CERTAIN : plugins are rubbish"

[multree]

"I have all the plugs there is. I have Waves, Sonalksis, UAD, Powercore, Nebula, Sonnox, PSP, URS, Liquid
Channel, you name it. I have all tose plugs installed. I can tell without a shadow of a doubt :
No plugin EQ comes CLOSE to hardware. I don't like plugin sound. it's thin and ugly. and though I have
never worked with hardare in my life, I can say for CERTAIN : plugins are rubbish"

[brok landers]

Well, as I'm not talking about 50-60 (Because I don't know such age group in person) but 35-50, I'm talking
about those Who've experienced "old" consules AND plugs and KNOW how they'd like THEIR audio to
sound like. for better and for worse.

I'm not one of them, BTW (although I DO fall into the age bracket of the latter).



Maybe they do roam these places but it's NOT to gain knowledge.

well, i consider myself as one of them. i'm not here to pretend, but i'm 40 and i started to make music with analog gear when i was 15 (that was 85). i pretty much know what i loved in analog gear and what i hated ... the latter comes to back to my mind now and then, when i have to struggle around with noise, instabilities of tuning (moog anyone?), unmaintained analog eq filters that horribly start to resonate out of nowhere, etc, etc ... i really know about the analog realm, not because i want it, but i simply had to work with it until the mid 90's ... i worked with an awful lot of analog gear frequently, either because i owned it, or i had to work with it on demand in a rental studio ... you know, a lot of folks around here seem to be just too young to have enough experience with analog gear, if they really touched it at all ... most are just _assuming_ that [enter name of plugin of your choice here] this sounds analog. and indeed, some really do sound convincing ... or differently speaking: analog doesn't necessarily mean good: you'd wonder how awful even an analog distortion could sound ... sometimes that awful, that you actually assume the distortion was digitally caused (it happened to me not too long ago ) ...
the young folks are hunting a ghost that doesn't exist because they already have what they are hunting for, they just don't know it ...
just one example: bootsie's booteq2 ... that thing sounds so good, it easily kicks some serious analog high ends in the nuts ...
then there's also some other things to be considered, which is always forgotten:
if you want to entirely sound like analog with your daw, you have to emulate it through the whole signal chain. it's not done by just slapping an analog emulated eq/compressor on a channel. but: trust me, it's not necessary (nor achievable). the perceivement of what we human beings define as good analog sound is mostly just 2 or 3 crucial characteristics ... that goes at least for eq's and compressors (synths is another story). i.e. i owned a lot of analog compressors over the time, good ones and awful ones, and some plugins really match the analog feel of those good ones. am-track for example is really analog sounding. and the cl series, but that's a taste thing, in my opinion adds the ice on the cake by adding that certain colour _exept_ saturation and dynamic response colouring (which to my knowledge up to now no compressor plug does) ... that certain something i loved on some of my analog compressors i had back in the days ... the way the artsacoustic cl series works on the transients imo is just so creamy, even when compressing hard, it sounds great ... i actually find myself constantly in the situation wanting to compress only for the sound of it with those, even if there's no need to compress the signal from the dynamic pov.

>snip<

"I have all the plugs there is. I have Waves, Sonalksis, UAD, Powercore, Nebula, Sonnox, PSP, URS, Liquid
Channel, you name it. I have all tose plugs installed. I can tell without a shadow of a doubt :
No plugin EQ comes CLOSE to hardware. I don't like plugin sound. it's thin and ugly. and though I have
never worked with hardare in my life, I can say for CERTAIN : plugins are rubbish"

i'd really like to know who you quoted ...
that's exactly what i mean ...

[eduardo_b]

if you want to entirely sound like analog with your daw, you have to emulate it through the whole signal chain. it's not done by just slapping an analog emulated eq/compressor on a channel.

Excellent insight. But it leads to me to the obvious question. For those who have not grown up using analogue gear, what is the basis for comparison? By the way, the cover story in the new SOS is on analogue warmth. Haven't read it yet.

[contrary]

I hope what the dev's said about the Reverb owners discount being extended with the MAC release is true ; Cause I don't think I can swing this so soon after the holidays.

Curious timing to have a release or specials right after the holiday ....

We be Tapped!!


I think the elusive analog is also that there are "action oriented" things that happen that digital sometimes does'nt do ; like a smattering of even harmonics on a transient only cause the power supply is sagging. I guess even the micro gain changes can be heard , the envelope shape and timing really matters that much .


So brok , what are those elemental factors of how we percieve sounds ...; are you talking psychoacoustic theory there?? I know your a smart guy and I'd like to learn more , and , I wish you were'nt at war with the paragraph . (sorry )

[Tp3]

....or differently speaking: analog doesn't necessarily mean good: you'd wonder how awful even an analog distortion could sound ... sometimes that awful, that you actually assume the distortion was digitally caused (it happened to me not too long ago ) ...
the young folks are hunting a ghost that doesn't exist because they already have what they are hunting for, they just don't know it ...

I'm very close to your age but nowhere as near to your actual analog experience. I DID work at a music shop,
selling analog gear, and here and there, worked a LITTLE with it, but that's about it.

the young folks are hunting a ghost that doesn't exist

I would have sent you to check some psychology/marketing books but I don't want to bore you. I'll sum it like
this :

1) Analog to digital comparison is plain stupid. I'll quote one technician that I know, VERY wise, and VERY
experienced :

There's no Better or Worse. there DIFFERENT

Thing is, "different" from WHAT ??

Almost ALL producers that engaged in modern day productions, ie. most productions that are NOT rock and
it's derivatives, don't have a CLUE as to what analog sounds like. the ridiculous thing is that even producers
that CAN buy analog gear, just buy it - place it around the studio as if it were pictures - and moan that
"they in pain for not using their precious analog synths but only its virtual siblings..." (this is a true
quote by a famous DJ/Producer. I won't say who he is and where did I read it on - for obvious reasons...)

2) You see, there no REFERENCE point. there's no "GOD", so to speak. and when there no reference point, we
glorify people/objects WAY beyond their REAL attributes. this is how it has always been, and this is what
will be FOREVER (yes, FOREVER )

3) Analog CAN sound $hit. a LOT of analog DID sound $hit. most young folks cannot except this notion, but
alas : it is true, and you from all of us here, know it...

just one example: bootsie's booteq2 ... that thing sounds so good, it easily kicks some serious analog high ends in the nuts ...

This is a great example :

I DO believe you with all my heart.
I WANT to believe you.
I KNOW that you experienced and knowledgeable.

The thing is, until you'll actually PROVE me (read - "US") your statement (ie. letting me hear actual
analog gear side by side with this GREAT plug) - this statement has no teeth. it will come and go like
flying leafs... believe me, friend : I have seen great wisdom and knowledge that worth GOLD - flush down
the virtual toilet as if it were toilet paper

then there's also some other things to be considered, which is always forgotten:
if you want to entirely sound like analog with your daw, you have to emulate it through the whole signal chain. it's not done by just slapping an analog emulated eq/compressor on a channel. but: trust me, it's not necessary (nor achievable). the perceivement of what we human beings define as good analog sound is mostly just 2 or 3 crucial characteristics ... that goes at least for eq's and compressors (synths is another story). i.e. i owned a lot of analog compressors over the time, good ones and awful ones, and some plugins really match the analog feel of those good ones. am-track for example is really analog sounding. and the cl series, but that's a taste thing, in my opinion adds the ice on the cake by adding that certain colour _exept_ saturation and dynamic response colouring (which to my knowledge up to now no compressor plug does) ... that certain something i loved on some of my analog compressors i had back in the days ...

I will come to that section in a moment, in my answer to Ed. b

the way the artsacoustic cl series works on the transients imo is just so creamy, even when compressing hard, it sounds great ... i actually find myself constantly in the situation wanting to compress only for the sound of it with those, even if there's no need to compress the signal from the dynamic pov.

You see, Brok - that way of expressing just contribute to the general phenomenon.

I DO NOT - BY ALL MEANS - ACCUSE YOU, but John Smith have NO frigging idea what is "the way the cl series
works on the transients imo is just so creamy"... so, you can hear ridiculous stuff like the following:
This is REAL conversation I heard between two audio students in an audio school. one of them is trying, in
all seriousness - or at least sound like a serious guy - to explain the other one the merits of some processor
:

"Dude, this thing is AWESOME. the roll-off of the cut-off ?? transient !"

These places are where things start, friend...

"I have all the plugs there is. I have Waves, Sonalksis, UAD, Powercore, Nebula, Sonnox, PSP, URS, Liquid
Channel, you name it. I have all tose plugs installed. I can tell without a shadow of a doubt :
No plugin EQ comes CLOSE to hardware. I don't like plugin sound. it's thin and ugly. and though I have
never worked with hardare in my life, I can say for CERTAIN : plugins are rubbish"

i'd really like to know who you quoted ...

that's exactly what i mean ...
No particular place that I quoted it from. just search KvR for those kind of questions and see what you
come up with

By the way, the cover story in the new SOS is on analogue warmth. Haven't read it yet.

Having read over and over (and over) the same kind of article by Pual White (SOS's editor) from 2001, and
after reading (or - trying to read) the 2010 version of it... I'd say that this article is HORRIBLE.
I felt like someone is trying to describe what SEX is via means like brain neurons, chemical formulas and
such.
Paul's article was - IMvHO - MUCH "to the point" without being "too simple" or "WAY too complicated for
the average human being to understand" (and those articles - all in all - ARE meant for "Average human beings".
The "Not so average human beings" knows EXACTLY what analogue warmth is....).
I'd say : read the 2010 article ONLY after you've read the 2001 one. and even then - after trying to read
the 2010 article and having a lot of difficulties - I think it is not necessary. but again, it is just
MHO (with HUGE respect to Hugh).

I'll finish by quoting Angus from FXPansion, from the thread about developers and sales. he was referring
to the LACK OF KNOWLEDGE as the main drawback of the industry and I agree, with all my heart :

There are now tens of millions of computers around, and loads of people want to try making music on them, so they are all potential customers, if the price is right, and if the produce is marketed right

I disagree, the education / knowledge gap there is HUGE, look at how instrument sources are presented in
GarageBand to get an idea for where most people are at. You can't sell them a plug-in synth (which requires
knowledge of MIDI, ability to play, understanding of plugin and host relationship...) when the competition
is "Deadmau5 Instant Desktop Beat Maker" or something.

[eduardo_b]

By the way, the cover story in the new SOS is on analogue warmth. Haven't read it yet.

Having read over and over (and over) the same kind of article by Pual White (SOS's editor) from 2001, and after reading (or - trying to read) the 2010 version of it... I'd say that this article is HORRIBLE.

The thing is, one person's horrible is someone else's interesting. Having read Paul's stuff over the years, I'd say the current article by another author is more detailed in ways that might make some yawn, but others take careful note. I think it's better than you feel it is, but it's not for everyone.

[Tp3]

By the way, the cover story in the new SOS is on analogue warmth. Haven't read it yet.

Having read over and over (and over) the same kind of article by Pual White (SOS's editor) from 2001, and after reading (or - trying to read) the 2010 version of it... I'd say that this article is HORRIBLE.

The thing is, one person's horrible is someone else's interesting. Having read Paul's stuff over the years, I'd say the current article by another author is more detailed in ways that might make some yawn, but others take careful note. I think it's better than you feel it is, but it's not for everyone.

IMvHO

But yes, I guess you are right. maybe the word HORRIBLE was extreme ...because I DO value Hugh's articles very
much. I think "frustrating" is more accurate. or "beat around the bush". why ? try to find means in which he
describes WTF IS "warmth"...

Take me, for instance : lets talked about compression. in my early years I read that compression "decreases
dynamic range"

GREAT !

But, WTF IS "Dynamic Range" ?

"Umm...excuse me Miss... do you happen to know what 'dynamic range' is ? "... "No ? OK"
"Excuse me Sir, do you know what 'dynamic range' is ?"... "Sure son, it's the range of the blast of a dynamite !"
"Excuse me dude, what's Dynamic Range ?".... "What, like you really don't know ??".... "Nope"... "Harmonics, man.... harmonics... especially 2nd order and 7th !... transients.... Phaaaaat....pleasing.... umm....yes" .... "what ?? I didn't understand a word ".... "K, dude... get GTF outta my face. I don't talk to dumb people "

Eduardo, can you kindly point me to the place(s) that Hugh vaguely explains what the phenomenon of "Analogue Warmth" REALLY IS ?
(I can. in both articles. and I gotta tell you, in 2010 version of it, you REALLY have to look hard to find
some "meat" after having lost in a sea of technical terms that in NO WAY helps to understand an abstract
idea...)

[shogger]

Hey Tp3,

I hear ya! I recently bought a magazine-special about mastering. Most of the stuff in there was so vague that there was partly no real information in it. "Don't overcompress!" Yeah, so what's too much? Gimme an example and tell me why you think it's overcompressed. Then I'll learn something.
I think that's what these little "knowledge/info boxes" were invented for in magazines. Like "warmth: what's that"? Or "Transients? What's that?"
It's so much easier to hide behind half-decent wannabe knowledge and act like the big pro. But this industry and to a big part the software sellers do live by that.
I once was in a shop to check out a certain synth. Went to the sales guy to talk about it a little: FAULT!!! There only came poor sales bla like "You know, it reminds me a bit about an Oberheim Xpander. And a little about the OBXa." I said "Yeah, and it reminds me a lot about the OB13." He instantly knew when to stop his stupid talk.

Shogger

[Tp3]

It's so much easier to hide behind half-decent wannabe knowledge and act like the big pro

Naa... it's not a matter of easy or not. this is our industry jargon. and "In Rome Act like Roman"
(ANYONE can be a roman, BTW. it really doesn't matter who you are and what you do...)

But this industry and to a big part the software sellers do live by that

A LOT more then what you think. and forums like KvR (and PLENTY MORE) are the infrastructure for a new breed of
CV

I once was in a shop to check out a certain synth. Went to the sales guy to talk about it a little: FAULT!!! There only came poor sales bla like "You know, it reminds me a bit about an Oberheim Xpander. And a little about the OBXa." I said "Yeah, and it reminds me a lot about the OB13." He instantly knew when to stop his stupid talk.

You don't know the half of it... I was at the other side where some client came and started spitting names of
vintage analog synths... "you know Moog ?... oberheim... ? DX7 ? and VCS3 ?? ha ??" he enthused.

So I've decided to show him a little lesson. with the same enthusiasm I asked, without even blinking "You know
R2D2 ?!". and he goes "YES ! YES ! man, does it has an emulation ??". so I replied "Yes... the R2V2"... and
he goes "I'll asked my brother to look it up in eMule ! thanks, Man !"

Sad, but true