KV331 Audio

insigna · Post by **insigna** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:15 pm

Thank you Rob. You can download presets.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:34 am

Ingonator wrote:Don't worry. I'll provide a multisampled Virus TI Hypersaw with my bank which i'm working on...
Ma<ybe i'll post a few audio demos of the patches i made with it.

Like promised here is a audio demo of the Virus TI Hypersaw in Synthmaster 2.5 (quote from another thread):

Ingonator wrote:Hi everyone,

this is not really a typical demo song but an audio demo of 6 sounds i recently made. Those will be included in a Synthmaster 2.5 expansion i'm currently working on.
All sounds are based on a multisampled Hypersaw preset which i created with a Virus TI. The last 2 sounds are layered with 2 multisamples based on presets created with a Waldorf Blofeld. The Delay/Echo FX in the first two soounds is added with the Mod Wheel. All sounds are a single instance of Synthmaster 2.5 and no external FXs were used.

link for the audio demo:
http://soundcloud.com/ingoweidner/ingo- ... 5-hypersaw

BTW i know that Suppersaw/Hypersaw is also possible with SM2.5 itself but this is the "real thing"...

Ingo

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:15 pm

I post this here as i think it fits better.

Xenox.AFL wrote:Well, i dont kow the VirusTI HyperSAW but i think its not much better as the patches created with Synthmaster, the only difference is maybe that you can save CPU power...

Frank

I have created a comparison with 3 demos of one of my Synthmaster 2.5 Synth Strings presets which use a Virus TI sample (this is my original preset), the SM2.5 additive oscillators and the SM2.5 Unison to create a Hypersaw sound.
All settings (e.g. filter, envelopes) in the 3 presets are identical except the oscillators. All 3 demos use the same MIDI data.
Here are the differences in the 3 demos:
1.) this uses a single oscillator with a Virus TI sample (multisampled)
2.) This uses two detuned additive oscillators with 8 detuned Saws each
3.) This uses two detuned Basic oscilators with a Sawtooth and 6 voice Unison

In the 2md and 3rd example the oscillators use free running oscillators.

link: http://soundcloud.com/ingoweidner/ingo- ... hypersaw-1

I don't say that the 2nd and 3rd example sound worse but it sounds different for sure.
Of course the use of the Unison has a huge impact on the CPU use so it should be used carefully. The lowest CPU use in this case is in the example which uses the sample.

Ingo

insigna · Post by **insigna** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:31 pm

Hi Ingo

Especially in the first part very crunchy and heard flange. Others are more correctly. But none of this sounds hypersaw or supersaw or whatever. This sounds just saw, basic saw.

If you look at the technical values, you can not create a useful sound. Human Sense is very important parameter.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:39 pm

insigna wrote:Hi Ingo

Especially in the first part very crunchy and heard flange. Others are more correctly. But none of this sounds hypersaw or supersaw or whatever. This sounds just saw, basic saw.

If you look at the technical values, you can not create a useful sound. Human Sense is very important parameter.

The first one is an original Virus Hypersaw but with 16 Saws (=2 oscillators). The difference is that this sound has more movement and the others are more "static". As you heard in my other demo yesterday the same sample could produce different sounds like Polysynth and pads.
Maybe what you talk about as a "correct" one is the Roland Supersaw which sounds significantly different to the Virus Hypersaw.
Like in the Roland Supersaw in the Virus Hypersaw there is more going on than just detuning a few Saw waveforms which is the reason why those sounds are not too easy to recreate.

Ingo

insigna · Post by **insigna** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:49 pm

I already knew that from. For this reason I mentioned the technical values. We hear as sound is not so special. Every parameter does not work the same on every devices. This technical values, the need to show itself. Sounds should be delicious ingo. And must be usable.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:56 pm

insigna wrote:I already knew that from. For this reason I mentioned the technical values. We hear as sound is not so special. Every parameter does not work the same on every devices. This technical values, the need to show itself. Sounds should be delicious ingo. And must be usable.

I don't see where that sound is not good and not usable? The sound in the last demo is a nice Synth Strings that sounds different from the "typical" stuff.

BTW my original intention of posting my demos (at least the one yesterday) was not to start another technical discussion but to show what is possible with that sample in Synthmaster 2.5. The technical discussion was more or less started by comments of e.g. Frank and you. My point was and is that the Virus Hypersaw sample i got sounds different than the other comparable sounds possible in SM2.5 (which is NOT bad!!) and therefore should qualify to be included in my soundbank.

If an identical sound would be possible without the sample i would maybe not use it but as i found it's NOT possible to recreate that exact sound without the sample.

I have just created another preset based on that sample which involves an additional HP filter, a little more Ensemble effect and some more or less "extreme" EQ settings which makes the result sound like a mixture of a Strings and a Vox sound.

Ingo

Cyforce · Post by **Cyforce** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:07 pm

3 pages for a supersaw osc preset?

step 1
additive osc

step 2
selected saw as waveform for all slave-osc

step 3
detune them decently(only finetune)

-> this would be a supersaw - in theoreticaly.

But for the most users a supersaw is this above 2x(second one with -1 octave on some slave-osc) with additional low & high equing followed with decent chorus usage

So why 3 long patches for "additive osc -> supersaw"?

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:15 pm

Cyforce wrote:3 pages for a supersaw osc preset?

step 1
additive osc

step 2
selected saw as waveform for all slave-osc

step 3
detune them decently(only finetune)

-> this would be a supersaw - in theoreticaly.

But for the most users a supersaw is this above 2x(second one with -1 octave on some slave-osc) with additional low & high equing followed with decent chorus usage

So why 3 long patches for "additive osc -> supersaw"?

In my last demo above i used steps 1-3 and using 2x plus some EQing in the second example. The first example in the demo uses a sample from the Virus TI.
While the result with the additive oscillator sounds nice in it's own respect it just does not sound the same which is all i wanted to say...

Of course i'm also doing other things with Synthmaster 2.5 than using a Virus TI sample. Besides other new samples and single cycle waves i'm using e.g. the additive oscillator (for additive synthesis...), the wavetable osc and the Vector osc.

Ingo

Cyforce · Post by **Cyforce** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:22 pm

It's also a "not optimal" comparision, with the Virus TI Hypersaw, because the additive osc have surely not the exactly same waveform as for example the virus hypersaw or the roland sypersaw, but how said, a "normal" supersaw are just 8 saws detuned and free-running.

But to many think a supersaw is directly a full finished lead sound based on several layers

But in short, with the additive osc of Synthmaster, chorus and eq, like in your example Ingonator, a supersaw liek sound can be done very(!) easily and fast inside Synthmaster 2.5

Alternative, record a hypersaw or supersaw as sfz-sample-set and load it into Synthmaster

Bronto Scorpio · Post by **Bronto Scorpio** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:25 pm

I don't know if someone already posted these links but they could be useful for you:
HQ recordings of all JP-8000 OSC functions: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332263
And Zebra supersaw tricks: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=332269
The tricks are for Zebra but some of them could also be useful for synthmaster

Cheers
Dennis

Sendy · Post by **Sendy** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:34 pm

I've been wondering recently if some of the 'Roland Supersaw Sound' might have something to do with the chorus of the JP. It's default chorus you get when you turn the chorus knob up is called "Super Chorus" and I can't help but think it's been designed with the supersaw OSC in mind, because they go together like strawberries and cream.

Ingonator · Post by **Ingonator** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:36 pm

Cyforce wrote: Alternative, record a hypersaw or supersaw as sfz-sample-set and load it into Synthmaster

kv331 · Post by **kv331** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:45 pm

and please DO NOT FORGET the ENSEMBLE EFFECT

Set it to 8 voices, and VOILA!

insigna · Post by **insigna** » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:35 pm

Ingo thanks for your efforts. I just said 'final sound are more important than technical details'. Supersaw usually used in trance, hard techno, hands-up dance genre music, and we all know how that sounds. When I saw the topic title, I thought talking about it..This is really important (maybe little hard) to create the this color. Anyway

Massive anthems, tasty plucks, classic 'mainstream' melodies made with supersaw since 1997. And this sounds belongs to roland JP-8000. Can you give me examples such as JP8000 or Virus TI?

KV331 Audio

KVR Audio

Supersaw: Still sounding bad!!!