indistinguishable from hardware ??

[PAK]

start using objectivity in your arguments if you ever want to be taken seriously.

A human being stating preferences about audio comparisons, using only their ears, is always going to contain a large element of subjectivity, not least where the examples are well matched.

Such comparisons often allow people to form their own opinion about differences far better than merely discussing it through a different medium, such as text, allows. People might even find it "fun". The fact that you apparently see no value in such an endevour perhaps makes another statement too, in my ever so subjective opinion

[breakmixer]

"99 Luftballons"

Sounds like a load of Red Balloons to me!

Anyways answers please Peter!

[ryandfl]

I say the analog versions are - 2, 1, 1, 2, 1

[aciddose]

start using objectivity in your arguments if you ever want to be taken seriously.

A human being stating preferences about audio comparisons, using only their ears, is always going to contain a large element of subjectivity, not least where the examples are well matched.

Such comparisons often allow people to form their own opinion about differences far better than merely discussing it through a different medium, such as text, allows. People might even find it "fun". The fact that you apparently see no value in such an endevour perhaps makes another statement too, in my ever so subjective opinion

it's possible to make an argument about a subjective property objectively, within a specific precision.

believe it or not, all you have to do is account for as many factors as possible while polling.

in this case the problem is that the poll is measuring one property which is potentially unrelated to the one in question.

you have to build a solid foundation to start with.

everything i said was objective. my commentary is 100% objective. my statement is only that the systems involved in the ob-x are likely best-case due to the fact they are least distinct.

i also point out that the examples given do not match within any reasonable limits. i can objectively point out very specific properties of the recordings (such as even order harmonics / a-symmetry) which immediately prove them to be dissimilar.

in order to ascertain which examples are matching which source, i only need to be given access to the original sources.

i was only able to guess about the source, but i have given a quite detailed explanation of why i think it's unlikely that i could be wrong.

although it's entirely possible - i only pointed out the fact that if it were the case it would only show that the ob-x emulation is a terrible emulation.

actually it doesn't really matter which source matches which clip - the emulation is definitely terrible.

[musikmachine]

Hardware

2-1-2-2-1

It was not easy to call, i had to listen to each a few times but anyone saying emus are poor i call shenanigans!

[hakey]

i can objectively point out very specific properties of the recordings (such as even order harmonics / a-symmetry) which immediately prove them to be dissimilar.

Which is completely beside the point.

Peter never claimed that the examples were matched - he said that they were far from perfect facsimiles from the start.

They were posted to test whether izonin could identify which example was the real analog synth and which the emu in each case, *not* whether the examples in each case merely sounded different (they do).

it's possible to make a subjective argument objectively

The better part of presenting an argument is the transfer of the ideas that are in your mind to the mind of another: aka communication.

I think you could do with practicing that bit.

[Peter999]

Thanks for voting

I think I'll wait with the solution until Urs' vote tomorrow, this one shouldn't miss really!

We have 11 votes in the meantime

Again, for those who missed the beginning (it's already a few pages ago), the whole thing started because a certain member used some strong words like "poor" to qualify the sound of software, which called for some reply

And also once more: It's not about if there's a difference or not - the difference is clearly there, no doubt, and experienced ears should be able to trace the original hardware without a problem - the point was: is software in any case sounding incredibly much worse than a real hardware synth (in the certain member's words who unfortunately didn't want to vote himself in the end to proove his competence: poor)

[aciddose]

what are you even trying to measure? have you defined poor? have you defined "incredibly much worse than" ? i call bullshit.

the specifics i gave can be explained by an analogy: the difference in timbre is akin to printing a symbol on top of a textured material in a specific color.

here, we have a different material and different color, although the symbol is the same. everyone can tell the difference immediately, but everyone has different preferences for the material and color.

all you're measuring is a fact we already know.

the real issue is that the majority of people don't have the ability to identify materials or colors. due to that, attempting to take any measurement of their ability will result in insignificance.

if you want to take a real measurement you need to start by specifying the material and color, specifying the symbol and asking an objective question about these things. such as "what is your preference for A vs. B?"

by this we can draw conclusions about the question we've asked - that is, what percentage of people prefer A vs. B, - yet we can determine absolutely nothing else.

without actually asking any question, you limit yourself to, well, it's completely pointless.

a valid measurement to take in this case would be "can you hear a difference between A/B you would consider significant, and please describe that difference."

then we can conclude that a specific percentage of people consider specific differences to be significant - which is exactly the point of the thread.

[hakey]

You're right AD, the results probably won't make it past peer review.

Jeez, get over yerself!

_

[aciddose]

do you have a point?

[hakey]

do you have a point?

do you?

[aciddose]

i'm fairly certain i make it in the above post.

it is this - the poll is total bullshit and doesn't actually take a valid measurement which would allow us to answer the question.

i also prescribe a valid measurement which would answer the question.

would most people favor the original version, or the software? how would they describe the differences? what percentage of people would note any significant differences?

in fact my suggested poll would create about ten times as many useful statistics as the one being conducted, and they would actually be relevant.

[Peter999]

the question was very simple: which one is the hardware and which one the software, in each of the 5 pairs; clear enough?

[hakey]

And my point would still be, get over yerself AD.

[aciddose]

no, that was the basis of your poll. what was the original goal?

i thought it was to decide whether people can tell the difference, whether this difference is significant, and which side is favored.

using my poll you'll also be able to collect many additional statistics like "how many people describe this factor using this phrase" and measure variation. for example you could use it to decide if a difference exists, how relevant it is, whether it is desirable or undesirable, which other factors it is mixed with in these ways and so on.

you already know "which one is...", why the hell bother starting a poll about it? i'm quite certain that was not the question you wanted to assert a conclusion for.